News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Ecomom's Founder and CEO Jody Sherman Passes Away by param on Wednesday January 30, 2013 @04:46AM (#5138762)
I have seen close friends and relatives work their way through depression (varying levels), so unfortunate as it is, here is the answer (I KNOW the following sounds crazy - even to me - but this is what is considered rational and obvious by suicidal folks)

Telling someone makes it likely that they will try to stop you. If you have decided to take your life, the worst thing you want (in some cases) is for someone try and prevent it from happening.

Also, depression never leaves you alone, so there will be multiple points in your life where you will think about taking your own life, and you will yourself doubt whether you will go through with it up to the point of pulling the trigger, so you don't want to tell someone and "waste their time" if you are not sure you are going to do it.

Its pretty crazy how these things work, and the best way out for me in helping such people has been to physically take them to a professional, every time, every session, until someone certifies them as no longer depressed. Nothing else has worked for me and I know I am not qualified or capable in talking someone out of a suicide attempt.

Re:Ecomom's Founder and CEO Jody Sherman Passes Away by lusr on Wednesday January 30, 2013 @04:57AM (#5138789)
There are other reasons too.

Having been there myself, the big one I've seen in myself and with friends in similar situations is that the depressed individual feels worthless and "unfixable" at their core because of their:

- past behaviour (e.g. they did something considered seriously socially unacceptable and feel they can't tell anybody lest they be ostracised forever, or people already know about it and they are ostracised leading to feelings of no hope of escape); or

- past experiences (e.g. they have a string of failed relationships they feel responsible for and believe they'll never be happy and every day seeing happy couples on Facebook or in the shopping mall is like a stab in the heart).

At the root of it is hopelessness, which also covers:

- future expectations (e.g. they're trapped in a very bad situation, e.g. money, relationship, crime, etc., and can see no way of escape)

In these desperate situations, they feel too guilty, hopeless, ashamed and/or disgusted to discuss their circumstances with anybody, and besides, in their minds, it wouldn't accomplish anything because they "know" they're broken ("I can't live with myself after what I did", "Alice was the only person who could love somebody like me", etc.) or screwed ("I can't go to prison", "If anybody ever finds out I'll never get a decent job/lover ever again", "Nobody can replace Alice, I screwed up forever", etc.) and there's no way out.

Perhaps the saddest thing about suicidal depression is that many (note: I'm not claiming all, or even a majority, OR in the case of Aaron OR Jody, simply 'many'!) of these scenarios seem to stem from a dysfunctional belief system and a lack of introspective coping skills that I imagine could easily be taught, in the form of life skills based on cognitive behavioural therapy, to school teenage children. Many parents lack these skills (through no fault of their own), and pass dysfunctional beliefs and thought processes onto their children (entirely unconsciously).

It's fascinating to me that such a serious problem - the #2 non-biological cause of death, behind road traffic accidents - receives so little real attention [1]. People get upset about wars, murders, have extensive fire safety requirements, covers for their pools, hide their poison and medicines from children, panic over their children being abducted or falling pregnant etc., yet suicidal depression? I don't believe I knew a thing about it until I had to learn quickly - to help myself.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_causes_of_death_by_rate

Re:Ecomom's Founder and CEO Jody Sherman Passes Away by robg on Wednesday January 30, 2013 @05:45AM (#5138910)
And the most recent study suggest suicide has now passed car accidents.

http://health.usnews.com/health-news/news/articles/2012/09/2...

Re:Ecomom's Founder and CEO Jody Sherman Passes Away by mikecane on Wednesday January 30, 2013 @08:29AM (#5139339)
On Twitter, I would follow a 911 tweeter. I could not believe how many people were killing themselves by jumping from heights in NYC. And they never made the MSM news at all.
Re:Ecomom's Founder and CEO Jody Sherman Passes Away by andyjohnson0 on Wednesday January 30, 2013 @05:47AM (#5138916)
"Telling someone makes it likely that they will try to stop you."

I think this is a likely reason, along with feeling of low self worth (feeling irredeemably "unfixable" as lusr described it [1]), or not having any fiends or family that they can tell.

The best thing is to talk to someone. Ideally a mental health professional, or failing that a friend or relation. But if a suicidal person feels that this would diminish their control over their life then I would urge them to phone a crisis line (list here: [2]). They keep their anonymity and control while giving themselves the chance of a way out of the immediate crisis, hopefully enabling them to get to the point where they can confide in someone and get help.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5138789

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suicide_crisis_lines

Re:Ecomom's Founder and CEO Jody Sherman Passes Away by philwelch on Wednesday January 30, 2013 @11:50AM (#5140333)
This is unlikely to be a convincing argument to a genuinely suicidal person. A crisis line's purpose is to prevent suicide. If you're suicidal, talking to those people sounds suspiciously like those all-expense-paid free vacations where they try to sell you timeshares.

Actually, that's the fundamental problem with this whole discussion. Stopping suicide means stopping people from doing what they want to do, literally with their own life, just because you don't want them to do it. With loved ones perhaps it's understandable, but what standing does some stranger on a crisis line have to try and do that?

Re:Ecomom's Founder and CEO Jody Sherman Passes Away by andyjohnson0 on Thursday January 31, 2013 @05:49AM (#5144385)
"This is unlikely to be a convincing argument to a genuinely suicidal person."

You may well be right. The problem is that suicidal people are usually depressed, and depression (as others have said [1]) is an illness. Specifically, a biochemical illness the affects the functioning of the brain to the extent that severely depressed and suicidal people often don't think rationally about the consequences of their actions. I think it is strongly arguable that trying to prevent the suicide of a mentally ill person is morally justified, even at the cost of temporarily impinging on their freedom of action.

I'm not saying that suicide is always irrational. Faced with, say, terminal illness and severe pain, suicide can be a rational choice for a person capable of rational thought. And I definitely support the right of an individual to end their life in that or a similar situation. Ultimately they "own" their life.

"what standing does some stranger on a crisis line have to try and do that?"

Maybe you haven't thought this through. When a person phones a crisis line they are actively seeking help, and have an implicit understanding that the person they speak to is there to try and provide it. "Standing" doesn't come into it because the caller chose to made the call and controls when to end it.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5143839

Re:Ecomom's Founder and CEO Jody Sherman Passes Away by philwelch on Thursday January 31, 2013 @03:25PM (#5147209)
Sure. I don't think genuinely suicidal people would call a crisis line, so it just serves as a harmless outlet for the "cry-for-help" types.

I also think the "mental illness" explanation is just a little too convenient in the general case.

Re:Ecomom's Founder and CEO Jody Sherman Passes Away by thatperson on Thursday January 31, 2013 @02:01AM (#5143883)
You're a fucking idiot. Those hotlines are the only people who understand and the anonymity is the only way depressed people will probably talk about it Particularly entrepreneurs.
Re:Ecomom's Founder and CEO Jody Sherman Passes Away by andyjohnson0 on Thursday January 31, 2013 @05:52AM (#5144390)
This is Hacker News. Be polite or take it to Reddit.
Re:Ecomom's Founder and CEO Jody Sherman Passes Away by philwelch on Thursday January 31, 2013 @02:07AM (#5143890)
Don't be a dick.
Re:Ecomom's Founder and CEO Jody Sherman Passes Away by JabavuAdams on Wednesday January 30, 2013 @09:35AM (#5139605)
> Also, depression never leaves you alone, so there will be multiple points in your life where you will think about taking your own life, and you will yourself doubt whether you will go through with it up to the point of pulling the trigger, so you don't want to tell someone and "waste their time" if you are not sure you are going to do it.

This is not true, though I agree that this is how the afflicted might see it.

I've had depression and suicidal thoughts. Now I don't. A combination of ambition, temporary setbacks, and treatable medical problems / drug interactions were at fault.

Now I don't feel suicidal. I sometimes feel sad, but never depressed. If anything -- the few bouts of depression I had were something like a crucible. I've looked into the abyss, broken down, and now I know that I can put myself back together again. It's actually kind of liberating and focusing.

There is hope!

Re:Ecomom's Founder and CEO Jody Sherman Passes Away by xijuan on Wednesday January 30, 2013 @05:18AM (#5138829)
I don't think he necessarily means that the person should tell someone his/her suicidal thoughts. I think he means that the person should tell someone about his/her troubles and worries so that others may provide help and support for that the depressed person. I think no one really really wants to die. People choose to end their lives because they feel there is no other way to ease their pain, emotional or physical. But if others tell them that there is a way to get better, they will choose to live.
Re:Ecomom's Founder and CEO Jody Sherman Passes Away by JabavuAdams on Wednesday January 30, 2013 @09:38AM (#5139623)
The problem is that if you don't tell someone else you're actually suicidal, you tend to get a lot of well meaning feel-good advice.

We naturally give people the benefit of the doubt. Bystander effect, etc.