Re:Man With 4th Amendment Written on Chest Wins Trial Over A...
by OGinparadise on Saturday January 26, 2013 @05:25PM
(#5122047)
Had this protest been launched somewhere other than in the security-screening area, we would have a much different case. But Tobey’s antics diverted defendants from their passenger-screening duties for a period, a diversion that nefarious actors could have exploited to dangerous effect.
Yeah, the "nefarious actors" couldn't grope, er pat down, any women during that time.
Re:Man With 4th Amendment Written on Chest Wins Trial Over A...
by yock on Saturday January 26, 2013 @12:47PM
(#5121039)
Even though this ruling seems to be in favor of liberty, I'm disheartened to read the excerpt of the appeals court ruling in the article.
We take heed of [Benjamin Franklin's] warning and are therefore unwilling to relinquish our First Amendment protections—even in an airport.
The court finds itself tempted to set aside Constitutional language for the sake of the nebulous idea of "national security." Next time they're faced with a ruling of this nature, their temptations might just get the better of them.
Re:Man With 4th Amendment Written on Chest Wins Trial Over A...
by ck2 on Saturday January 26, 2013 @01:06PM
(#5121101)
They already set aside huge swaths of the constitution for "national security".
I think their argument is "what's a little more violation?"
United States has had a very large constitution-free zone for many years - people who have been stopped for border-searches hundreds of miles inland already know this.
Re:Man With 4th Amendment Written on Chest Wins Trial Over A...
by Osiris on Saturday January 26, 2013 @12:32PM
(#5121004)
When I used to travel for work I made a big effort to avoid going through the scanners by selecting lines that weren't using them or opt-ing out. My last opt-out occurred after the new groping pat-downs were put into practice and I found the pat-down much more disturbing than the scanner. Now, I still try to avoid the line with the scanner, but when required, I'll go through them rather than get groped.
Unfortunately, this lawsuit will do nothing to change the way the TSA operates. I would have been happier to see the punishment not just be a payment of monies but a requirement to change policies and procedures to avoid this in the future. I don't see that happening.
Re:Man With 4th Amendment Written on Chest Wins Trial Over A...
by StavrosK on Saturday January 26, 2013 @12:48PM
(#5121043)
I always opt-out too. It's a matter of principle, I refuse to have my privacy invaded like that without being able to see who invades it, plus it creates more work for them.
Also, I rather enjoy pat-downs. They're like a massage, and the TSA agents wasn't too overt with the problematic regions, although they did try psychological manipulation to make me feel bad (refusing to let me touch my stuff, making me take my belt off, etc). I didn't mind, though, opting out felt like a big "fuck you" to the TSA.
Of course, I don't even live in the US, so I've only done it twice.
Re:Man With 4th Amendment Written on Chest Wins Trial Over A...
by tansey on Saturday January 26, 2013 @12:43PM
(#5121029)
I think that is an unfortunate attitude. I always opt-out. It's a form of civil disobedience and governments don't like that, so they enact procedures that try to discourage people. If enough people opted out, the whole system would come to a stand-still and they would have to rethink the policy. That may mean just removing the option of a pat down altogether, in which case I imagine there will be a large backlash. The real fear for me is that people just become accepting of it slowly over time, until they finally can remove the option and then not enough people will be outraged.
Re:Man With 4th Amendment Written on Chest Wins Trial Over A...
by linuxhansl on Saturday January 26, 2013 @07:45PM
(#5122509)
Personally, I will never ever go through one of these scanners. I don't think they are a health risk or anything; it's a matter of principle and they are known to be ineffective anyway. If some poor schmuck wants to pad me down, so be it.
(btw, I am German and have received the most thorough pat down, ever, in Germany)
I think a crucial observation here is: How many terrorist has the TSA stopped? ... Not a single one.
All this effort, the lines, the money; and not a single catch.
Re:Man With 4th Amendment Written on Chest Wins Trial Over A...
by Pinatubo on Saturday January 26, 2013 @02:57PM
(#5121537)
Lazy protest. He should have sewed the text 4th amendment into the inside of his shirt with strips of aluminum foil and then gone through the nudie scanner.
Re:Man With 4th Amendment Written on Chest Wins Trial Over A...
by pitchups on Saturday January 26, 2013 @01:19PM
(#5121141)
And this is why I love the US and am a citizen! I can think of almost no other country where such a man would not have been arrested and had no legal recourse.
Re:Man With 4th Amendment Written on Chest Wins Trial Over A...
by graue on Saturday January 26, 2013 @03:50PM
(#5121717)
My opinion of Sweden's government has worsened considerably thanks to those extremely blatant examples of politically-motivated injustice. A high ranking shouldn't be an excuse to sweep real problems away.
For more on the Pirate Bay trial, see Falkvinge's post here:
Re:Man With 4th Amendment Written on Chest Wins Trial Over A...
by msbarnett on Saturday January 26, 2013 @07:55PM
(#5122552)
I've met a number of Americans who deeply believe that they are the free-est people on earth and that literally all of us who live outside the US are by definition constantly battling with abusive governments against which we have no recourse.
Re:Man With 4th Amendment Written on Chest Wins Trial Over A...
by betterunix on Saturday January 26, 2013 @01:40PM
(#5121234)
Sadly, most people who are arrested or punished because they exercised their rights have no recourse in this country. A legal battle is pricey, risky, and the damage is often done long before anyone sees a courtroom.
Re:Man With 4th Amendment Written on Chest Wins Trial Over A...
by illuminate on Saturday January 26, 2013 @03:32PM
(#5121667)
This "we're the best because we're the best!" attitude is harmful and resting on laurels "as an American" is why we're not the best, leading to a continued erosion of freedom, ill-action, and our deserved opinion in the eyes of the rest of the world.
Re:Man With 4th Amendment Written on Chest Wins Trial Over A...
by linuxhansl on Saturday January 26, 2013 @07:51PM
(#5122528)
I'm sorry, but it just reveals how deluded you are.
While I agree it is great that he did not have to face any further repercussions, it actually did go to trial and he was in fact found guilty by the lower court.
Dude was braver than I've ever been, could have ended really badly.
Yeah, the "nefarious actors" couldn't grope, er pat down, any women during that time.
We take heed of [Benjamin Franklin's] warning and are therefore unwilling to relinquish our First Amendment protections—even in an airport.
The court finds itself tempted to set aside Constitutional language for the sake of the nebulous idea of "national security." Next time they're faced with a ruling of this nature, their temptations might just get the better of them.
I think their argument is "what's a little more violation?"
United States has had a very large constitution-free zone for many years - people who have been stopped for border-searches hundreds of miles inland already know this.
http://www.aclu.org/constitution-free-zone-map
Unfortunately, this lawsuit will do nothing to change the way the TSA operates. I would have been happier to see the punishment not just be a payment of monies but a requirement to change policies and procedures to avoid this in the future. I don't see that happening.
Also, I rather enjoy pat-downs. They're like a massage, and the TSA agents wasn't too overt with the problematic regions, although they did try psychological manipulation to make me feel bad (refusing to let me touch my stuff, making me take my belt off, etc). I didn't mind, though, opting out felt like a big "fuck you" to the TSA.
Of course, I don't even live in the US, so I've only done it twice.
(btw, I am German and have received the most thorough pat down, ever, in Germany)
I think a crucial observation here is: How many terrorist has the TSA stopped? ... Not a single one. All this effort, the lines, the money; and not a single catch.
http://cargocollective.com/4thamendment
You have less freedom than most of us, not more. The NDAA wouldn't fly in Canada, or Scandinavia, or ...
Maybe better in some respects, but Sweden seems pretty corrupt in light of the Pirate Bay trial and Assange prosecution.
Based on those two examples?
According to this: http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2012/results/
...4 nordic countries place in the top 7. Sweden is nr 4. The US is nr 19.
For more on the Pirate Bay trial, see Falkvinge's post here:
http://falkvinge.net/2013/01/06/banana-republic-justice-behi...
HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5016277
It's absurd but not uncommon, sadly.
While I agree it is great that he did not have to face any further repercussions, it actually did go to trial and he was in fact found guilty by the lower court.