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Re:Emacs in the Age of Magic by vhantz on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @05:59PM (#50460104)

  > I believe a sufficiently interested emacs developer with a
$100 plan and a long weekend could hammer out a pretty good first cut. That no one's yet done it is clear evidence that no one really wanted these things so much as they wanted to talk about it.

The disappearance of bikeshedding doesn't look like an obvious one but it's a huge loss. Imagine if every scientist resolved to refer to already written books and carry on their research in closed labs with no discussion with the rest of their field.

Re:Emacs in the Age of Magic by jnpnj on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @06:32PM (#50460512)
There's a principle I can't describe clearly. But one instance of it is the homogenization due to cheap(or free) instantaneous communications. Slow and limited created space and time to share, and incentives to do so because you needed to discuss with others to get or form new knowledge. Now everyone refers to the same source (see the evolution of design, choice of colors). Limits are protective in a way.
Re:Emacs in the Age of Magic by billstickers on Thursday November 12, 2026 @01:35AM (#50463780)
A similar principle to that of lower-budget films, where constraints force filmmakers to find creative solutions. Meanwhile, films with seemingly unlimited budgets can somehow end up with bland, homogenised stories and surprisingly poor special effects. Limitations are a catalyst for creativity rather than an obstacle to it.
Re:Emacs in the Age of Magic by trashb on Thursday November 12, 2026 @10:04AM (#50468536)
This is a concept that has stuck with me a lot. I believe I first heard it the GDC 2016 Talk from Mark Ferrari. I've come to call it "limitation breeds creativity".

I believe a lot of people will find out with AI that most people don't have very original ideas. And that the limitations we encounter while realizing those ideas enable us to grow it into a good art piece or product. Due to being forced to consider if the effort of working around the limitations is worth it. And then put in the effort to realize something that approaches the initial idea as close as possible. Instead of instantly being able to realize the first idea in you mind without any obstacles.

Re:Emacs in the Age of Magic by msteffen on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @08:39PM (#50461898)
Yeah, I look for opportunities to replace personal vibe-coded utilities with public projects for this reason.

Software still feels like this grand exploration to me—what's the best way to use a computer? What's the best way to express a program?—and a hackable text editor epitomizes that ethos (though I'm partial to neovim myself). Every time I install a plugin I feel like I'm participating in a clinical trial of UX design.

I think a lot of us feel this and the community will have to solidify the ethos that trying out other people's software is noble and healthy, exposing you to other peoples' ideas, even if it's actually harder than vibecoding.

Re:Emacs in the Age of Magic by hobo123 on Thursday November 12, 2026 @12:32PM (#50470969)
Isn't there just too much breakage? Projects change all the time, their UIs change, sometimes they even pull the whole rug (e.g. Gnome 3.0).

With vibe coded tools you know what you got, and they're easy to adapt if you need to.

Re:Emacs in the Age of Magic by msteffen on Thursday November 12, 2026 @07:04PM (#50476277)
Well, my point is precisely that there’s an alternative to OSS that didn’t used to exist, and it’s pretty compelling, and it will probably keep getting better over time.

Why use OSS then? Because of the community—you will get ideas from using other people’s software that you wouldn’t get from staying in your bubble. OSS projects therefore ought to see themselves as a community first and a software project second. Do other people in the gnome community like the change? Why did the maintainers make it? You have less reason to use gnome than ever, but if you do use gnome 3, you’ll be trying out software that (a) somebody thought was a good idea, and (b) you definitely wouldn’t have vibe-coded for yourself. So that’s something.

Re:Emacs in the Age of Magic by dkarl on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @10:17PM (#50462607)
> Imagine if every scientist resolved to refer to already written books and carry on their research in closed labs with no discussion with the rest of their field.

Open source projects have always had forks, public and private. The ability to fork a project and use your own version of it privately, without needing permission or buy-in from others, has always been an explicitly valued aspect of open source software. If it was always seen as a good thing before, why do we see it differently now?

I think the reason is an implicit assumption that the production of more unshared work means that less work will be shared. But I don't see why that would be true. We could just as easily, and more likely in my view, see more work shared with the world at the same time we see more work not shared with the world. The incentives for cooperation remain, even as it becomes easier to work alone.

Has anyone made a persuasive argument to the contrary, or provided evidence? It seems like the main problem AI has created for open source projects is an avalanche of bad PRs, not a drying up of good contributions.

Re:Emacs in the Age of Magic by sublinear on Thursday November 12, 2026 @01:03AM (#50463600)
> If it was always seen as a good thing before, why do we see it differently now?

Writing code shouldn't merely be about accomplishing a goal, but making deliberate and good decisions that lead to more good decisions with increasing ease and clarity. It's no different than any other type of planning, engineering, or architecting. FOSS demands this more than any other genre of software because it's made collaboratively.

I think AI is just too irresistible for the reckless and dumb developers who were, unfortunately, always the majority in our line of work. Now we don't have to guess at that fact anymore or be afraid of being judged as arrogant for saying it. Now we know. These developers don't bring anything to the table. The problem of rejecting garbage PRs is far from new.

Re:Emacs in the Age of Magic by dkarl on Thursday November 12, 2026 @09:15AM (#50467529)
This sounds pointlessly elitist to me. Those "dumb" developers can do a fine job of solving a problem well enough for a limited context, which is what they're paid for. If we limited ourselves to software that emerged from "good decisions that lead to more good decisions with increasing ease and clarity," then we wouldn't have much software at all. Your doctor's office would still run on paper files.

But who knows, maybe AI will get good enough to meet your standards even though most humans don't.

Re:Emacs in the Age of Magic by sublinear on Thursday November 12, 2026 @12:37PM (#50471071)
I'm not talking about paid work.

Not every project has to be "elitist", but if the goal is to do the best work to serve a particular use case you can call it whatever you want. It doesn't change the fact that the best work has to be done.

Re:Emacs in the Age of Magic by 0x445442 on Thursday November 12, 2026 @09:02AM (#50467223)
Yeah, I view the ability to fork and to keep as much as you want in synch as the purest form of free and open. Some people are just after utility and don't wish to be involved in a "community" and all that entails.

Github has the forks link for easy navigation to other spins. If core won't except contributions for whatever reason let the marketplace decide what is useful. Let a thousand flowers bloom I say.

Re:Emacs in the Age of Magic by ssivark on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @11:49PM (#50463178)
[delayed]
Re:Emacs in the Age of Magic by bloopernova on Thursday November 12, 2026 @03:18AM (#50464438)
Neomacs is about 95% complete it seems. I just ran it and it used my init.el* just fine. There are still significant bugs, and if I had spare tokens I'd probably contribute some towards it.

* probably yak shaved and far too much for what I use it for

Re:Emacs in the Age of Magic by jshaqaw on Thursday November 12, 2026 @10:24AM (#50468902)
Good point. So many software things I thought I really wanted. Now that they are a few days of AI chats away I realize I don’t really want them very much.