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Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by skittleson on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @10:25AM (#50441708)
Author here. This is ten years of home automation rules, led by one: nothing core should depend on a vendor's server. Setup core is Tasmota, MQTT and Node-RED on a Pi. I've given this talk a few times and started working on a third for the agentic era. What's the most pointless internet dependency you've found in a device?
Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by guhcampos on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @11:12AM (#50442376)
This is absolutely great stuff, but I think I caught you red-handed there. Alexa Routines break your fundamental rule!
Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by skittleson on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @11:51AM (#50442926)
Alexa is really convenient. i still think my rules still follow as long as core systems are still controllable offline. Which I really try to achieve through use of tablet on the wall (local wifi is still offline access in my head)
Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by bluefirebrand on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @11:14AM (#50442408)
Basically any appliance is completely ridiculous to require an internet connection imo. When are you going to need to use a stove or dishwasher without being home? What value do you actually get from having a smart fridge that you can view analytics about from your phone?
Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by skittleson on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @11:54AM (#50442977)
the only useful thing about a smart fridge is whether if it fails.... i hope it would make a noise. One trick i used was a cheap ble temp sensor in the fridge that would report to the BLE adapter of a tasmota device that sends mqtt messages to grafana. then i would get alerts if it was open or something broken. happened a few times!
Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by wongarsu on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:16PM (#50444026)
My non-smart fridge makes annoying noises when the door is open too long, and slightly less annoying noises the first time you open it after a power cut causes it to get too warm (I believe it depends on interior temp when the power comes back on?). It might make noises when it breaks in other ways, that thankfully hasn't become relevant yet

I guess connecting to home automation would be useful for a fridge that's sufficiently out of the way that you might not hear it. But for the fridge in my kitchen the noises emitted by the fridge itself are enough for me

Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by tomcatfish on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @11:19AM (#50442482)
:( Your notes are probably more fun to read than the generic AI voice. Your actual notes are fun, but seeing the ~extra cruft from an AI writer in every line irritated me enough to quit before the end.
Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by diggernet on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @11:46AM (#50442859)
Love your rules.

My personal situation imposes even stricter versions of your #1 and #2:

1. No network, no problem. Anything core to the house has to work with Wi-Fi or automation server shut down.

2. Smart functionality must not remove dumb functionality.

As one example: having a physical switch that controls a light and the switch can be operated by automation is good. Having automation control a light and the switch just tells automation what to do is bad.

This does make things hard sometimes. For instance, your sprinkler controller doesn't pass that bar. In fact the only one I've found so far that has a local API for automation plus full "dumb" on-device control (no Wi-Fi, no app) is RainMachine, and they are gone. If only OpenSprinkler hardware had a touch screen for local UI.

Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by WalterBright on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @11:58AM (#50443048)
The best devices have a local web interface so you can control them with your computer (like how you control your router).

Unfortunately, almost no lan connected devices sport such an interface.

Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by akifbayram on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:42PM (#50444400)
There’s a pretty active ecosystem of ESP32 projects for HVAC systems. I’ve been working on a few that add Apple Home and Matter support with a local web interface for basic and advanced features. The web interface exposes things Apple Home or Matter protocols don’t represent well. Vane positions, different modes (dry, fan only), equipment diagnostics, remote sensor control, and even peer to peer communication for fully offline control (no WiFi needed). Plus it gets me a control path independent of the home automation stack. There’s a lot you can put on the device itself these days.

With another project, based on the ESP32-S3, I was able to cram grafana style scrubbable charts, full activity log, refrigerant circuit diagram, equipment topology, etc. I'm pretty excited for the ESP32-S31 since it's a nice jump up in performance.

Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by MostlyStable on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @11:59AM (#50443052)
I tried to stick to this philosophy, specifically the part about it working even if my local automation server is down, for a long time. But I finally found an automation case where I wanted functionality where I could not simultaneously have the functionality and have the switch continue working when the server was off.

Specifically, I wanted the switch to turn on different lights depending on the time of day. In the evenings in early morning I wanted it to turn on the dimmer floor lamps, and during the day, I wanted it to turn on the brighter Center room light. This was not possible without turning the switch from a light turning on device, to an automation activating device.

I thought really long and hard about if I was worth the trade off, and in the end I decided that my automation server was only likely to be down for significant periods of time if the power was out and the lights weren't working anyways. If I run into a situation where this becomes a problem for me, I'll reconsider my decision. Which is a great thing about the local control. If I make a decision that I don't like I can just change it.

Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by wolrah on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:11PM (#50443953)
> 1. No network, no problem. Anything core to the house has to work with Wi-Fi or automation server shut down.

This is one of the reasons I love Zigbee, the device network is entirely independent of my computer network, can not directly communicate to the internet in any way, and every device I've put on the network so far can be configured to directly communicate with other devices so basic functionality remains operational even if the controller goes down.

For example, in my living room I have a Lutron Aurora dimmer dial locking a standard switch in the on position, then plugged in to the outlet that switch would normally control is a Leviton dimmer module. Both connect to the network controlled from a PoE Zigbee dongle, but have been directly paired as well so pressing the button on the dial makes it directly tell the dimmer module to turn on, rotation commands are sent direct, etc.

The controller also receives these commands when it's active and can add to the functionality for inputs like double-click, but if it's down the basic functionality still works entirely as a normal person would expect. You walk in to the room and see a knob on a switch plate, you turn the knob and the light brightness increases regardless of the state of the internet, my home server, or even my network as a whole.

The other major advantage compared to Matter/Thread is that it's not IP based so it's impossible for any Zigbee device to ever have a cloud dependency. No matter how much some marketing dingus might want to, it can not be ruined.

Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by WalterBright on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @11:56AM (#50443017)
I've bought multiple internet radios over the decades. The demise of them is always its dependency on a remote server which enables setting which stations you want to listen to.

The remote server always goes away after a couple years go by, and the radio is only capable of playing the stations that were set as presets. Then the preset radio stations go offline, or the URLs for them change.

Re:Smart home devices should work without the internet by skittleson on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @01:38PM (#50444338)
same story as a meat thermometer someone told me about. the hardware outlives the server and still stops working. At least with opensource projects, if they are no longer maintained, its possible to fork and keep they going. hardware can be tough unless the device's firmware can be updated.