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Re:Sshole by quotemstr on Thursday November 05, 2026 @04:40PM (#50384831)
Contemporary opinion among who? Words mean things, and "type safe" simply does not mean "agrees with my preferred style of error reporting"
Re:Sshole by poly2it on Thursday November 05, 2026 @05:05PM (#50385153)
Papers on type soundness from the last 30 years usually explore the domain further than C semantics.
Re:Sshole by quotemstr on Thursday November 05, 2026 @05:17PM (#50385277)
That's not the same as asserting that soundness requires adherence to the current fashion, sum types over results and errors. TIMTOWTDI.

You don't have to think C is sound or good to distinguish a disfavored API style from mathematical unsoundness. There are infinitely many type safe APIs and languages that are, despite their soundness, ugly and hard to use.

Re:Sshole by ciefa on Thursday November 05, 2026 @05:17PM (#50385278)
Can you link some?
Re:Sshole by pron on Thursday November 05, 2026 @06:12PM (#50385893)
This is not about soundness. Soundness means that the program behaves in accordance with what its types express. What you're saying is that papers on types show how you can use types to express more constraints.
Re:Sshole by ranger_danger on Thursday November 05, 2026 @08:45PM (#50387111)
There can be other valid perspectives and definitions of that word than yours.

I think almost all (tech) arguments stem from simple disagreements and/or different assumptions made on the definition of a (subjective) term.

Re:Sshole by pron on Thursday November 05, 2026 @09:55PM (#50387597)
You may be right in general, but soundness comes from formal logic, where they're pretty fastidious with their definitions. Soundness certainly doesn't mean the expressivity of the types (i.e. what constraints they can represent); it's about the relationship between the runtime behaviour of a program and the types in the code.
Re:Sshole by ranger_danger on Friday November 06, 2026 @02:58AM (#50389437)
Again I think you're trying to push a specific definition as more correct than OP's somehow. Why not just ask them what they meant to understand their intent/context instead of saying they are wrong?
Re:Sshole by pron on Friday November 06, 2026 @07:09AM (#50391425)
I think I understand their point and even said, "What you're saying is that papers on types show how you can use types to express more constraints," and that's correct. I merely pointed out that that's not soundness, which is something I think they'd like to know. There may be some leeway in the definition of soundness and how it's similar to or different from type safety, but either way, type expressivity is something different altogether (and C certainly has issues with both expressivity and type safety or soundness, but they're different issues). So the point isn't to win - the argument was right and I'm not claiming that C's type system is expressive - but to explain the different terms and their meaning in programming languages and formal semantics.
Re:Sshole by majorchord on Thursday November 05, 2026 @08:38PM (#50387072)
Opinion among people who know better than to try to explain subjective words with dogma, because that just makes them look silly.