> who’s to say otherwise?

There is a lot of discussion about veterans and moscovites saying otherwise, but I wonder how loud their collective voices are to the Kremlin. From the outside, I have a dim view of that.

Could just send them for 15 years in a very harsh prison if they say otherwise, if that's what they already do for anti-war speak anyway?

In 2023, the government told Prigozhin, a head of a private military company Wagner, that he must transfer the command of his units to the main army. This resulted in Prigozhin taking his army from the frontline, capturing the headquarters of Special Operation in Rostov, and marching on Moscow. During march, they shot down several planes and helicopters which were trying to stop them. At that night, several private jets were urgently leaving the capital.

So, mistreating veterans might not work out as expected.

More details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group_rebellion

How did that end for Prigozhin? Where is he now?

He made a deal (not public) with the government, he leaves Wagner and gets out of Russia and the government leaves him alone. 2 months later a private jet with Prigozhin and several Wagner commanders exploded in the air in Tver Oblast, not far away from Moscow. There is video online of the plane breaking apart and falling if you search hard enough.

The deal seems to not work out.

I think there were no official explanation for this incident, propaganda posts explain that they were using drugs and playing with a grenade onboard.

That is considered as surrender.

>>>If Putin suddenly declared he’d met his objectives and withdrew who’s to say otherwise?

Ahem, some facts: 1. Putin is representation of "collective Russian" mind 2. Collective Russians at this moment believe that they are winning the war. 3. Any withdrawing would be interpreted as betrayal and sure death for Putin(and he knows that) and new instance of his replacement, that would need to implement whatever collective Russians think.

Unfortunately, but the only way to end this war is a Russian military defeat, as no withdraw would ever happen and suggesting something like that is a fantasy, that ignores reality of how Russians are thinking. Yeah, it would have been better if NATO was involved, but on other hand Europeans and USA are too afraid to man up and chew bubble gum and kick some ass - they are now reverse of that chew something that is not bubble gum and take in the ass and Putin likes some young ass.

Yes, Putin cornered himself, the ambitious evil idiot...especially after their official act of joining the invaded lands to Russia.

That would just be an inconclusive end to the war. An actual surrender can be conditional (an explicit deal that favors the winning side) or unconditional. In an unconditional surrender, the winner is free to do whathever they want. For example, they can walk in, rewrite your constitution, and dismantle your military and the industry supporting it.