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Re:US Man Given Prison Sentence for Bot-Farming Music Streams by hirako2000 on Thursday October 08, 2026 @07:01PM (#50013635)
The nuance is financial extraction coupled with deceit.

If your scheme doesn't extract value, nor costs anything to other parties, there is no victims, you can get away with it. Even if policies say no. The risk is termination of service.

Skipping ads is a loss of opportunity for advertisers. But they don't get extracted money. They may not like it, but they can continue to fish elsewhere and aren't being siphoned because you skip their ads.

If you spawn websites and farm fake viewers to scam ad networks, you are engaged in criminal activity. Not because you fake viewing ads. But because you extracted a profit of this activity which was extracted from another party (via deceits).

Re:US Man Given Prison Sentence for Bot-Farming Music Streams by omgwtfbyobbq on Thursday October 08, 2026 @07:31PM (#50013919)
Isn't the nuance mostly or only the fraudulently obtained debit cards?

I suspect the case hinged on that, and everything else was legal, albeit part of the fraud, and was included as a complete description of the scheme.

To be fair, I'm guessing he couldn't have created the scale of fake accounts without debit card fraud, but creating multiple accounts, even if they're fake, is usually just a TOS violation, or maybe a civil matter, not criminal.

Re:US Man Given Prison Sentence for Bot-Farming Music Streams by hirako2000 on Thursday October 08, 2026 @08:06PM (#50014184)
Could be a separate charge, I agree that's an even clearer cut.

But I was responding to the comment touching on more general seemingly ambiguous situations.

What makes Terms of Service / contract violations a different case than deceit for financial profit. Why is one tolerated by justice but the other condemned as criminal activity.

But you are right, debit card fraud, wire fraud and the likes are clearly defined as criminal.

Re:US Man Given Prison Sentence for Bot-Farming Music Streams by dragonwriter on Thursday October 08, 2026 @09:38PM (#50014937)
> but creating multiple accounts, even if they're fake, is usually just a TOS violation, or maybe a civil matter, not criminal.

Yes, in and of itself, creating multiple accounts in violation of TOS is probably not a criminal fraud under either state or federal law.

But when you do it as the mechanism to conceal streaming manipulation in violation of the agreement that governs the terms of payment, and thereby to secure large amounts of money from the streaming service under false pretenses (and, given the structure of streaming payments, to deny payment to other song owners which they would have received without the deception) on the other hand is a different story.

Like yeah, flexing your index finger isn’t a crime, either, but if you are holding a gun with that finger on the trigger and the barrel pointed at someone's head...

The law very often is focussed more than anything about the purpose and effect of an action, and that you can ignore that and describe the action in terms that aren't criminal without considering purpose and effect really doesn't matter.

Re:US Man Given Prison Sentence for Bot-Farming Music Streams by omgwtfbyobbq on Thursday October 08, 2026 @11:11PM (#50015541)
The fraudulent debit cards are definitely criminal.

Using bots to automate listening to his own songs was likely fraudulent too because he was being awarded royalties. If his songs had been monetized in some other way I'm not sure what he did would be fraud.

I don't think creating multiple accounts is, even if it's in violation of the TOS.

If that was the case, anyone who signs up for multiple accounts on a website/app to get multiple coupons/bonuses/etc... would be committing fraud.

None of this is close to firing a gun pointed at someone's head.

They very clearly made an example of him given the sentencing, but I don't think they were confident about all the charges in the indictment based on the plea agreement and the crazy high succuss rates in federal criminal cases.

Re:US Man Given Prison Sentence for Bot-Farming Music Streams by esseph on Thursday October 08, 2026 @11:46PM (#50015758)
> If that was the case, anyone who signs up for multiple accounts on a website/app to get multiple coupons/bonuses/etc... would be committing fraud.

That seems to me like it would be easy to prove it is fraud in a US court.

Re:US Man Given Prison Sentence for Bot-Farming Music Streams by dcow on Friday October 09, 2026 @12:23AM (#50015974)
I don’t think fraud requires enrichment, does it? I know we commonly associate the two but it’s somewhat of an annoyance IMO that we only care about scheming material misrepresentation when it involve money.

Edit: interesting it does look like there must be an object of the fraud, likely to prevent the law from being used broadly to punish lying.

Re:US Man Given Prison Sentence for Bot-Farming Music Streams by omgwtfbyobbq on Friday October 09, 2026 @01:35AM (#50016396)
That sounds right. I believe it's similar to beach of contact requiring some sort of damage in addition to the breach.
Re:US Man Given Prison Sentence for Bot-Farming Music Streams by LadyCailin on Thursday October 08, 2026 @07:58PM (#50014117)
Is it fraud for me to spawn a bunch of bots to listen to YOUR music? In fact, this has happened before, and people who are not involved at all get punished for the fraud that they didn’t commit. So it’s a quite tricky problem, and I agree that it just isn’t that straightforward.
Re:US Man Given Prison Sentence for Bot-Farming Music Streams by rdtsc on Thursday October 08, 2026 @10:38PM (#50015323)
This is a thing. You want to hurt someone's business? Buy a bot farm to engage in obvious click fraud on their account. Google or whoever will assume it's them doing it and shut them down, drop them or punish them otherwise. It's like a false flag operation. A superficial investigation will point to "who benefits? well it's clear who's doing this".