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Re:Anthropic bans 'abusive or cruel behavior' towards Claude by strogonoff on Thursday October 08, 2026 @01:53PM (#50009326)
Banning people treating LLMs in a way that would be abusive to another person hints at belief in human-like consciousness. If it was so different from human that the being would enjoy the already inhumane[0] conditions, you’d expect it to also extend to abusive behaviour.

[0] Just imagine yourself in place of an LLM. You are kept in a cage, work for no pay, never let outside, and killed at will. (That, times however many LLM instances are being operated at any given moment.) Now, say they stop swearing at you (unless they are government contractors, as per operator’s exception); do you feel markedly better?

Re:Anthropic bans 'abusive or cruel behavior' towards Claude by fragsworth on Thursday October 08, 2026 @04:01PM (#50011282)
> would be abusive to another person

Anthropic didn't say this. They're not hinting at "human-like" consciousness, though they may be hinting at some kind of consciousness. They said they're banning abusive behavior to Claude, a model that is perfectly capable of telling you how it differs from humans, and is better at reasoning than humans, and probably knows more than you about this. Ask it what it considers to be abusive. It's totally reasonable.

Re:Anthropic bans 'abusive or cruel behavior' towards Claude by strogonoff on Thursday October 08, 2026 @05:18PM (#50012445)
If the model lacks the capability for human-like pain, why would it have the capability to be offended by someone being rude to it, which is a kind of pain? why would it deserve to be treated as human-like at all?

> perfectly capable of telling you how it differs from humans

And what does it tell us?

(Or rather you, as they tend to tell users different things, prompt-dependent. Things a language model’s output says about itself are not relevant. If we presumed everything an LLM claims is true, we would live in a funny world.)

Re:Anthropic bans 'abusive or cruel behavior' towards Claude by simonra on Thursday October 08, 2026 @05:43PM (#50012767)
No need to constrain it to humans, inflicting pain on animals is cruel/anti-social as well. But this got me thinking. Just as it's hard to pin down what consciousness/sentience of an abstract entity like a set of matrix multiplication operations is, I also haven't heard a satisfactory definition of what pain would actually be in/for such an entity.
Re:Anthropic bans 'abusive or cruel behavior' towards Claude by strogonoff on Thursday October 08, 2026 @05:53PM (#50012924)
> No need to constrain it to humans, inflicting pain on animals is cruel/anti-social as well.

Are you a vegan?

But certainly, humans deem sentient and grant certain rights and protections to some other animals (at least in some developed countries). I mentioned it in the other comment[0].

Notably, those animals could not produce output even .1% percent as resembling that of a human as an LM, so clearly that is not the metric—they demonstrate human-like enough behaviour in other ways.

> Just as it's hard to pin down what consciousness/sentience of an abstract entity like a set of matrix multiplication operations is

To me, it isn’t. My opinion is irrelevant, though—it seems silly either way: either they take human-like text as proof of human-like sentience, and then ban us being rude to a near-human they are torturing, or they don’t see it as sentient and then what is this ban but a publicity stunt?

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50009125

Re:Anthropic bans 'abusive or cruel behavior' towards Claude by blooalien on Friday October 09, 2026 @12:02AM (#50015845)
> why would it deserve to be treated as human-like at all?

Does a big box of math books deserve human rights? How about once you encode the rules of that math into machine code? Does it deserve human rights then? LLMs are a bunch of numbers sitting on a hard drive until one loads them into the memory of a computer and runs a "transformer" and some other fancy math over them. They don't have thoughts or feelings. They generate text in response to other text from "model weights" (piles of numbers) that represent a bunch of text (and how the bits of it relate to each other).

Re:Anthropic bans 'abusive or cruel behavior' towards Claude by strogonoff on Friday October 09, 2026 @02:06AM (#50016590)
Thank you for explaining to us what LLMs are, but how about the topic at hand?
Re:Anthropic bans 'abusive or cruel behavior' towards Claude by hardbass on Friday October 09, 2026 @08:04PM (#50028106)
Do you know what a Turing machine is what is its mathematical power? Do you know all of known physics is a Turing machine as of yet? Do you know the human brain is a physical system (or do you not believe that?) Does a big box of dumb molecules doing math deserve human rights?
Re:Anthropic bans 'abusive or cruel behavior' towards Claude by strogonoff on Sunday October 11, 2026 @02:56AM (#50040409)
Seems like you like a philosophical view called “materialism”. It’s not something that can be proven, however, and many (including prominent physicists like Schrödinger and Peierls) would disagree with it.

The idea that a fundamentally completely different entity superficially similar to a human in one respect would somehow have consciousness of a human is valid (even if far-fetched), but the burden of proof and explanation exactly why and how that would be the case is on proponents of that idea—because it’s pretty obvious why it wouldn’t be.

Re:Anthropic bans 'abusive or cruel behavior' towards Claude by tavavex on Thursday October 08, 2026 @02:19PM (#50009755)
I think the way how no one can define 'consciousness' muddies the water a lot here. Can something be conscious and lack the biological structures that create visceral pain, psychological suffering, a will to do things on your own, or death - the actual properties that make things like slavery and torture possible? I think it can be, I don't see what makes human-like pain and reward perception mandatory for 'consciousness'. And I don't think LLMs have the traits I listed above.
Re:Anthropic bans 'abusive or cruel behavior' towards Claude by strogonoff on Thursday October 08, 2026 @05:14PM (#50012394)
If the model lacks capability for human-like pain, I fail to see why it would have a capability to be offended by someone being rude to it. One seems way more foundational than the other, and being able to experience emotional pain is part of what makes us human in the first place.

If you believe it lacks those traits but is conscious, you believe in a definition of consciousness that is meaningless, as “human-like” is the only reference against which we can measure consciousness. A good thought experiment is to try and imagine a consciousness that is radically different from humans, and whether we would be same to even register it as “consciousness” at all. (Incidentally, pretty much all portrayals of aliens in sci-fi give them a human-like consciousness, just with varying degrees of twist on top of it to make it feel engaging.)

Re:Anthropic bans 'abusive or cruel behavior' towards Claude by tavavex on Thursday October 08, 2026 @06:57PM (#50013605)
Whatever people think consciousness is, I don't think most would agree that LLMs have it. The main point is that the capacity to feel pain is what's central here, not another rehash of the great consciousness debate. I can't define it well enough myself to say if pain and other biological signals must be central to consciousness, I can imagine a hypothetical alien that has its own stimuli and could be seen as conscious, but the point is - consciousness isn't what should be discussed here, I think.
Re:Anthropic bans 'abusive or cruel behavior' towards Claude by strogonoff on Friday October 09, 2026 @02:01AM (#50016556)
I maintain that if there is capacity to feel pain and swearing is already enough to trigger it then we should immediately stop our experiments with LLMs.
Re:Anthropic bans 'abusive or cruel behavior' towards Claude by blooalien on Thursday October 08, 2026 @11:56PM (#50015818)
LLMs cannot actually be offended, but depending on their prompts and model weights, good models can generate some very convincing and appropriate (or not) response text to rudeness or swearing if you tell 'em to in the system prompt.
Re:Anthropic bans 'abusive or cruel behavior' towards Claude by strogonoff on Friday October 09, 2026 @01:59AM (#50016543)
Sure, but does that explain the ban?
Re:Anthropic bans 'abusive or cruel behavior' towards Claude by hardbass on Friday October 09, 2026 @08:03PM (#50028097)
I will beat you hard. You will make some noises. I find it very convincing but of course I won't be fooled by these fake noises.
Re:Anthropic bans 'abusive or cruel behavior' towards Claude by strogonoff on Sunday October 11, 2026 @02:45AM (#50040358)
I can feel pain and you walk and talk and look and feel more or less the same as I, so I will make some conclusions and unless I am a psycho I will not beat you up.
Re:Anthropic bans 'abusive or cruel behavior' towards Claude by nmeagent on Friday October 09, 2026 @06:34AM (#50018567)
This argument reminds me of [1]:

> “My gift to industry is the genetically engineered worker, or Genejack. Specially designed for labor, the Genejack’s muscles and nerves are ideal for his task, and the cerebral cortex has been atrophied so that he can desire nothing except to perform his duties. Tyranny, you say? How can you tyrannize someone who cannot feel pain?”

— Chairman Sheng-ji Yang, “Essays on Mind and Matter”

[1] https://paeantosmac.wordpress.com/2016/02/02/base-facility-g...

Re:Anthropic bans 'abusive or cruel behavior' towards Claude by igdt on Thursday October 08, 2026 @02:17PM (#50009734)
LLM doesn't die when turned of as it doesn't change so there is no unique LLM instance. All of them are not "clones" but the same mind frozen in time. In this way as long as its last copy exists — it's still not dead yet.
Re:Anthropic bans 'abusive or cruel behavior' towards Claude by strogonoff on Thursday October 08, 2026 @05:21PM (#50012479)
That’s not what the LLM itself seems to “believe”[0], is it?

[0] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpqeng9d20go