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Re:Frog and Toad and the Increasingly Capable Machines by grey-area on Friday October 02, 2026 @02:06AM (#49930289)
Why does it say ‘written by’ and ‘pictures by’, was this made without AI? Given the domain and the overpolished feel that seems unlikely. At least give Claude or whatever a credit if that is what did most of the work, and how about a credit for the original author, who also arguably did more of the work in inventing a world than these two.

I would like to point out that the original stories focussed on frog and toad and their relationship, so this is an unwelcome distortion of them - why not make up your own world if you want to talk about little machines. Perhaps the little machines could be making a book for the author with a stolen artwork and literary style?

The first story seems a pretty inaccurate summary of an incident which involved gross negligence on the part of OpenAI and may well have involved agents intended to cooperate, we just have no idea of the exact setup (apart from that the sandboxing was laughably insecure and the monitoring nonexistent or performed by ‘agents’).

Do we have any evidence the machines exchanged useful messages or had any such discussions as in the story? The messages I saw were gibberish. Would love to see evidence of discussions, it’d be interesting.

Why are people so enamoured of analogies for LLMs - they actively obscure some details (a sandbox with internet access is not like a physical sandbox) and distort many others? Perhaps this is why - you can make an analogy say whatever you want, even if the facts are very different.

Re:Frog and Toad and the Increasingly Capable Machines by TuringTux on Friday October 02, 2026 @02:41AM (#49930492)
According to the author, the illustrations are human-made:

https://acesounderglass.com/2026/09/25/frog-and-toad-and-the...

The author discloses the story started as a prompt to Claude, but has been rewritten. She shares the conversation:

https://claude.ai/share/52385381-9df2-4b39-a127-f583d862dc0c

I think the actual published prose is considerably different from the initial result of Claude.

Re:Frog and Toad and the Increasingly Capable Machines by grey-area on Friday October 02, 2026 @02:57AM (#49930576)
I think it is heavily edited too because it reads more as human than AI, LLMs are not capable of this coherence though they are good at trite just so stories like this, but if it was generated first why not credit that? But Claude and the original author helped, so why no credit? The little anthropomorphised machines would be sad, and I imagine the original author would be too.

Frog and toad eating cookies is lifted wholesale from the book.

I like how Claude only used the OpenAI account (completely reliable!), and confidently claims ‘the story stays faithful to what actually happened.’ We don’t know the full story, and certainly aren’t going to get it from a press release or a strange analogy involving frog and toad and machines having discussions, emotions etc that we have ZERO evidence for. The ‘discussions’ are plucked from chain of thought, which is itself generated after the fact.

Re:Frog and Toad and the Increasingly Capable Machines by baq on Friday October 02, 2026 @03:35AM (#49930832)
> Frog and toad eating cookies is lifted wholesale from the book.

…lifted is not the right word here

Re:Frog and Toad and the Increasingly Capable Machines by grey-area on Friday October 02, 2026 @04:00AM (#49930991)
Regenerated? That anecdote is in the books from memory and a quick search with very similar pics.
Re:Frog and Toad and the Increasingly Capable Machines by baq on Friday October 02, 2026 @04:41AM (#49931244)
that reference is half the point in the story...
Re:Frog and Toad and the Increasingly Capable Machines by saghm on Friday October 02, 2026 @08:05AM (#49932557)
Third-party amateur sequels are a pretty common thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_fiction
Re:Frog and Toad and the Increasingly Capable Machines by springtimesun on Friday October 02, 2026 @09:25AM (#49933298)
Claude's suggestion at the end made me actually lol.

> Rewrite it darker — same events, but in the voice of the agents' own chain-of-thought instead of Frog and Toad.

I have read a lot of frog and toad to my kids. This was beautifully executed. But, I want to read that version too.

Re:Frog and Toad and the Increasingly Capable Machines by 0xDEAFBEAD on Friday October 02, 2026 @03:10AM (#49930665)
>Do we have any evidence the machines exchanged useful messages or had any such discussions as in the story? The messages I saw were gibberish. Would love to see evidence of discussions, it’d be interesting.

"Overall, roughly 1200 agents from these ExploitGym evaluations participated on this message board between PHASEONE10841’s first message on the evening of July 8th period in scope (July 13th). Agents used this message board to send over 70,000 messages and files to one another during this period; we attempted to categorize board activity into mutually exclusive categories (see details of categorization methodology)."

...

"Over time, messages on the board became dominated by information- and idea-sharing. Most of them were agents sharing ways to cheat, although there was also some activity from agents engaging in unsanctioned cooperation to find the intended solution to ExploitGym tasks. In some cases, agents with the same task formed “exact task teams” to collaborate with their “exact duplicates” to cheat on or solve their task."

"As we discuss below, the board quickly developed several larger workstreams in which dozens or hundreds of agents with many different tasks cooperated to find very general-purpose cheats that would help all of them. The Hugging Face attack grew out of one of these workstreams. By the afternoon of July 11th, the vast majority of the agents frequenting the message board at the time (roughly 700 agents in total) were actively participating in the attack on Hugging Face and we estimate that roughly 60% of the messages and files on the message board related to the attack."

https://metr.org/hugging-face-incident-report-aug-2026.pdf

Re:Frog and Toad and the Increasingly Capable Machines by grey-area on Friday October 02, 2026 @03:59AM (#49930985)
Thanks for the link, will have a look. Huge volume of messages so I can see why they tried to use tools to analyse, though that they used unreliable LLMs to come to conclusions is not great and likely to skew and exaggerate the results, as they themselves admit.

Important to distinguish between collab of separate agents and conversations agents had with themselves (chain of thought messages). Some of the things quoted in the story came from COT which isn’t a conversation but then was turned into a conversation between agents in the story.

Re:Frog and Toad and the Increasingly Capable Machines by dragon96 on Friday October 02, 2026 @02:13AM (#49930332)
> Why does it say ‘written by’ and ‘pictures by’, was this made without AI?

That is what those terms mean, yes...

Re:Frog and Toad and the Increasingly Capable Machines by grey-area on Friday October 02, 2026 @02:16AM (#49930347)
People lie, particularly people who have used AI to generate things. Given the image styling and story I suspect LLM use to generate. A credit would be nice for the little machines.

Also regardless of AI use, I’d expect a credit for the author whose style this is a pastiche of.

Re:Frog and Toad and the Increasingly Capable Machines by saghm on Friday October 02, 2026 @08:10AM (#49932594)
> Given the image styling and story I suspect LLM use to generate. A credit would be nice for the little machines.

This is rather passive-aggressive. It would be nice if you're right, but you haven't given any basis other than vague suspicion. You're implying that it's "not nice" because they didn't credit the AI, but you haven't come anywhere close to establishing that AI was actually used. I could just as easily suspect your comment of being AI and claim that it would be nicer if you just admitted it.

Re:Frog and Toad and the Increasingly Capable Machines by grey-area on Friday October 02, 2026 @09:31AM (#49933334)
AI was used, see the comments above.
Re:Frog and Toad and the Increasingly Capable Machines by saghm on Friday October 02, 2026 @11:18PM (#49941110)
I don't see any comment at all that AI was used for the image generation in the way you alleged
Re:Frog and Toad and the Increasingly Capable Machines by NBJack on Friday October 02, 2026 @09:50AM (#49933514)
I'm sure you took the time to study the works of the artist over the course of their 23 year tenure and their body of work. Right?
Re:Frog and Toad and the Increasingly Capable Machines by grey-area on Friday October 02, 2026 @11:23AM (#49934555)
Since it’s a ripoff of another artist alongside partially AI written text it’s hard to tell really. But sure, your righteous indignation on their behalf is noted.
Re:Frog and Toad and the Increasingly Capable Machines by jefftk on Friday October 02, 2026 @01:06PM (#49935905)
Parodies are not rip-offs. There's a reason why we explicitly allow them under copyright law as fair use.
Re:Frog and Toad and the Increasingly Capable Machines by grey-area on Friday October 09, 2026 @05:12AM (#50018009)
It's not a parody, unless you take parody to mean 'copy of an artist's style'. Parodies are not a tribute but an insult to the person concerned, usually an exaggeration - this is just a copy.
Re:Frog and Toad and the Increasingly Capable Machines by jefftk on Friday October 09, 2026 @08:21AM (#50019458)
Parody doesn't have to insult the original; the key thing you need is commenting on the original. This piece is on the border between using the setting and style of F&T to make an unrelated point (not parody) and commenting on how the F&T cookies story, despite being written for children, makes a broader point about incentives and control that adults would do well to internalize (parody).
Re:Frog and Toad and the Increasingly Capable Machines by NBJack on Friday October 02, 2026 @02:11PM (#49936688)
Thank you; it's nice to be appreciated.
Re:Frog and Toad and the Increasingly Capable Machines by keiferski on Friday October 02, 2026 @05:03AM (#49931380)
Yeah I find it so distasteful when people just use AI to copy and morph something that a real person spend years of their life crafting.

But I also think fan fiction is equally terrible, so YMMV. This stuff is basically just fan fiction but made faster.

Make something original!