News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by freehunter on Friday December 28, 2012 @11:46AM (#4978306)
Living in Michigan, this is one of my biggest fears. Due to the massive lakes that surround us, we frequently get a blast of warm, wet air that causes rain, and of course that warm wet air is being pushed off the lake by a cold front, causing high winds and sub-freezing temps. This combined with large stands of farmland and no trees for windrows means wind blows right across the road and freezes the rain instantly, sometimes right beneath your tires. What was wet a second ago is now frozen, and you can't see the difference. The snow starts to pile up, and a gust of wind pushes you right off the road and into an irrigation ditch. The best 4x4 in the world won't get you out now. And good luck using your cell phone: the areas where this is most likely to happen often have no cell service, or the cell service is only for Verizon phones (too bad you have AT&T, and the FCC forced them to sell off their overlapping network in that area). Four wheel drive won't help. Locking differentials won't help. All wheel drive won't help. All of these require even faintest bit of traction, and you don't have it.

People think I'm weird for having a CB radio in my truck, but last winter during an ice storm I went off the road. Literally all of the county's emergency crews were busy taking care of other ditch parties. I called out on my CB for the local off-roading enthusiasts, and 15 minutes later a snowmobile arrived with a winch. I paid $30 to the man for his help (though he insisted he didn't need payment), and I was back on the road. The CB cost me $250; how much would a tow truck have cost?

This article should be read by everyone who has to travel in winter conditions. Seems like every winter I hear the obituary on the news of people who go off the road and try to hoof it somewhere miles away in a normal winter jacket, jeans, and boots. I keep a snowmobile suit in my truck during the winter. One thing I would have added is something along the lines of "and you knew you couldn't stay in your car with the heat running waiting for help, you'd die from the exhaust fumes". I think that's more common than freezing to death.

Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by astral303 on Friday December 28, 2012 @12:30PM (#4978506)
The conditions you describe are tough. Going off the road in an ice storm sucks. Love your CB and snow suit suggestions.

The following is not commentary on your situation, but tips to reduce chance of getting stuck:

1. I strongly recommend running a set of good snow tires, no matter whether you have an AWD Subaru or a 4x4 truck or a FWD Corolla. Yes, truck snow tires exist.

The reason is that the rubber compound is much much softer on these tires, and it stays soft when the temperatures drop. All-season tires are much harder in cold temperatures. The tread is also cut into much smaller blocks (known as siping), the edges of which help bite into the ice.

While ice is slippery no matter what, the difference in the grip level between a typical all season tire and a good snow tire is very significant. We are talking 3x the stopping distance. I've seen it on glare ice.

Now, if you really want to be protected, you must buy good studded snow tires. A set of Nokian Hakkapeliitta 7's will make ice seem almost like wet pavement. The amount of ice grip you have with those is unbelievable. The downside is the increased tire noise.

2. Practice controlling skids on ice or snow: practice countersteer, practice NOT hitting the brakes, practice using throttle.

If you can practice this to make it second nature, or at least not foreign, this can make the difference between you spinning and not.

Get out to a snowy parking lot, start turning, let off throttle, then yank the e-brake (and put it down right away). You should start experiencing a spin at this point. No matter what, train yourself to immediately countersteer, such that your front wheels are pointed to where you want the car to go and not where the car is facing.

Now, while countersteering every time, compare the following 3 situations after starting the spin:

A. Counterseteer & do nothing with brake or gas. Simply get your feet off the pedals.

B. Countersteer & hit the brakes.

C. Countersteer & apply gas.

You must actually experience each of these to believe it, but you will learn that it is "C", applying gas, which will get you back in line the soonest. You will notice that as soon as you give it gas, the spin will stop or slow down significantly. You will notice that if you hit the brakes, you spin much further than if you were to simply let go off all the controls.

This is counter-intuitive, but basically if you start spinning on ice on a straight road and you have a FWD/AWD car, applying some throttle will often stop your spin, whereas hitting the brakes almost guarantees a spin. It's worth practicing, if you can.

The reason has to do with weight transfer. Your car's traction at each end is determined by the amount of weight. When you accelerate, you decrease traction up front and you increase traction in the rear. Lifting off throttle increases front end traction and decreases rear end traction, a little. Hitting the brakes massively decreases rear end traction and massively increases front end bite.

Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by freehunter on Friday December 28, 2012 @01:05PM (#4978674)
For truck snow tires, many times "reasonable" MT (mud terrain) or AT (all terrain) tires are also rated for snow. I say reasonable because MTs can get pretty extreme in their tread pattern, which will really hurt your stopping distance on ice. Extreme MTs have very little rubber touching the road. On my truck I have Goodyear Wrangler SilentArmor tires, which are rated for on/off-road and extreme snow. I wouldn't recommend them as street tires, as they are loud and wear very quickly on pavement, but just as an example of truck "snow" tires, ATs and MTs often serve the same purpose as snow tires, as well as giving you a better ability to get back on the road if you've gone off in a muddy or rough area.

ATs wear quicker than all-seasons (~50,000 miles). MTs wear extremely quickly (~30,000 miles). Normal all-season tires generally wear at ~60,000 miles.

-edit- also, before buying studded tires, check to see if they're legal in your state/country, and make a note of the legality dates. Many times they're only legal from November through March (studded tires damage the road when the road is dry). Tire chains are temporary solutions, but are practically illegal in many states (can only be used if the chain never touches the road surface).

Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by barrkel on Friday December 28, 2012 @02:27PM (#4979083)
I had a spit-take when you suggested 30k was extremely quick wear, as I'm used to motorcycle tyres, where 5k is a fairly long life!
Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by SoftwareMaven on Saturday December 29, 2012 @01:47AM (#4981365)
Every year, as the snow hits, I "play" with the kids in the car in controlled circumstances. The points is to 1) re-awaken my skills and 2) give me a teaching opportunity with my kids. Dealing with an out of control situation in the ice is challenging enough when you are prepared. If you are constantly freaked out about the snow/ice, you are in big trouble when something unexpected happens.

It's also a lot of fun to deal with a car that is borderline out of control in a more controlled environment.

Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by fest on Friday December 28, 2012 @05:23PM (#4979924)
> you will learn that it is "C", applying gas, which will get

> you back in line the soonest. You will notice that as soon

> as you give it gas, the spin will stop or slow down

> significantly.

That only helps with more common, oversteer situations (when the rear wheels are skidding). On the contrary, if you're experiencing an understeer (front wheels are skidding) applying more gas will only make matters worse. You want the front wheels to regain traction, and there are two ways to do so- countersteering and do nothing with accelerator. A tiny little bit of braking may be neccessary.

All this advice is rarely useful when driving a car (except in places where temperature is below freezing point) but it's extremely important when riding a motorcycle on every kind of terrain.

Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by Arelius on Friday December 28, 2012 @06:05PM (#4980072)
> A tiny little bit of braking may be neccessary.

While it's true that braking can be very helpful, I'd caution against suggesting it because braking during a slide, even while it's understeer caused, can be very delicate and easy to overdo. And releasing the gas will quite often normalize the difference quite fast enough.

Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by Arelius on Friday December 28, 2012 @05:58PM (#4980037)
> The reason has to do with weight transfer. Your car's traction at each end is determined by the amount of weight. When you accelerate, you decrease traction up front and you increase traction in the rear. Lifting off throttle increases front end traction and decreases rear end traction, a little. Hitting the brakes massively decreases rear end traction and massively increases front end bite.

While this contributes to the effect, it's does not properly represent what's actually going on. Generally speaking, you want to perform action that normalizes the speed of the tires and the wheels, as you said, this is basically never breaking because wheels are good at slowing themselves down. If the slide is caused by slow tires, or if the tires have time to slow while the slide is happening (The most common case, and also the one that is caused by hitting the e-brake) Then indeed, as you said applying gas is the proper action. But compare this to a slide caused by wheel-spin due to too much gas, Any additional application of gas will just make the problem worse.

Having said that, if you do find yourself in a slide caused by too much gas, hitting the brakes will almost always make it worse, instead lightening up on the gas, and then slowly reapplying tends to be the most effective strategy.

Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by hobbe80 on Friday December 28, 2012 @08:54PM (#4980664)
The recommendation to use snow tires on cars/trucks in these areas seems to me like a given. In Sweden it's mandatory to have "winter tires" (either studded or non-studded, but rated for snow - if you're not in the southern-most parts of Sweden, where there's actually rarely snow more than a couple of weeks per year, I'd say 90%+ have studded tires) - given the (I believe?) similar winter climate, I would have believed that even if it had not been mandated it would be common knowledge to use these tires in winter climate? How common is it to use winter rated tires in the northern parts of the US? Also, in order to get a drivers license here you need to complete a "winter driving course" (which you do in the summer using a contraption on the car that raises it somewhat, reducing the grip of the tires - it's a pretty good estimate on driving on an icy road) - is there a similar requirement to pass for a drivers license in the states where the road conditions are similar?
Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by nradov on Friday December 28, 2012 @06:12PM (#4980099)
Edmunds did a quantitative test of snow tire performance for one common FWD car.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/tire-test-all-se...

Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by 46Bit on Friday December 28, 2012 @12:13PM (#4978432)
Why would you die from fumes inside your car? Provided the air intakes and exhaust pipe were clear of snow, I was under the impression it wouldn't really build up.
Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by 30thElement on Friday December 28, 2012 @12:29PM (#4978503)
Assuming the exhaust pipe is clear isn't the best assumption when you're in a ditch in the middle of a blizzard. Even if the pipe is clear, rust from the all the salt on the road or damage from going into the ditch could easily put a hole in your exhaust.
Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by sardonicbryan on Friday December 28, 2012 @12:41PM (#4978549)
So what is the best play then? Wait in the car without the engine running?
Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by tjoff on Friday December 28, 2012 @01:18PM (#4978742)
Might not be that bad, there was a case here in Sweden last winter with a man that got trapped in his car for 60 days, with temperatures reaching -28 C.

He apparently survived by eating some snow (and drinking some soda?) but had nothing else to eat. He had a sleeping bag and I guess the snow makes quite good isolation. Not something I'd recommend though, he was lucky to survive and was in a really bad shape when he was found.

( some pictures: http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article14394731.ab )

Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by snogglethorpe on Friday December 28, 2012 @06:30PM (#4980162)
I've slept in a car (a VW bus with the seats down to make a flat space) without the heater running, in below-freezing conditions (maybe 10-15 degF) with another person.

It was actually pretty amazing how well it worked. We had sleeping bags, but woke up to find the interior of the car quite warm. It actually seemed downright cozy and luxurious compared to sleeping in mountain lodges where it's typically miserably cold in the sleeping areas outside your sleeping bag.

My takeaway: this experience seems to suggest that a few people in a small space that's wind-tight and maybe has a bit of insulation (clearly not great in a car with all that glass) can keep things reasonably warm with only body heat...

Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by saraid216 on Friday December 28, 2012 @12:47PM (#4978579)
About.com (not the best resource, but I googled the answer since I don't know it) recommends running your engine for short periods and cracking the window open.

I'm hesitant to actually agree, since cracking the window open doesn't seem like an awesome idea in the middle of a blizzard but... eh.

http://weather.about.com/od/winterweather/a/winter_survival....

Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by malnourish on Friday December 28, 2012 @01:09PM (#4978697)
Cracking your window open during a blizzard wouldn't be too bad. Blizzards mean snow and it typically stops snowing when it gets substantially cold, so it is very likely that the heat from your engine would over power the slight cool air coming in from the window.
Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by Tichy on Friday December 28, 2012 @03:11PM (#4979274)
Not sure, do cars reliably start in the cold?
Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by AYBABTME on Friday December 28, 2012 @06:25PM (#4980141)
They do. I've personally never had a problem starting my engine, even in -40 (Celcius) nights in Canada. It sure takes a couple of seconds, but recent cars (>1990) all start just fine in extreme cold. Given your battery is charged, and your engine is in normal conditions.
Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by 30thElement on Friday December 28, 2012 @08:38PM (#4980615)
Interesting tidbit: -40 Celsius is the exact same temperature as -40 Fahrenheit.

Nitpick: If you have a diesel, your car will not start at all if the engine is cold, but if you have a diesel and live anywhere where there's a risk of it being cold enough for hypothermia, you already know this. Also if you have a crappy battery, in cold enough weather it won't put out enough juice to turn over the starting motor (that's why there is a difference between cranking amps and cold cranking amps). But again, if you live in an area where this is an issue you should already know this, and your battery is probably rated to like -40.

Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by ivix on Friday December 28, 2012 @09:19PM (#4980774)
The problem of course is that diesel fuel goes thick and viscous at very low temperatures.
Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by philjohn on Saturday December 29, 2012 @03:49AM (#4981543)
I discovered this last winter when it got to -15 here in the UK - I was waiting for a diesel train from our local station that was 20 minutes late as they couldn't get it started.

It was interesting seeing electric trains too - the pantographs gave off amazing blue sparks that you normally don't get when the weather is warmer.

Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by benjarrell on Saturday December 29, 2012 @08:12PM (#4984105)
Are engine block heaters common there? It was 10°F last night where I live (in the US) and they are pretty common here.
Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by justin66 on Friday December 28, 2012 @02:25PM (#4979071)
Keeping the exhaust clear would be worthwhile even if it means going out in the snow and doing some work. You should be doing that anyway: your best chance of being found is brushing most of the snow off the top of the vehicle so someone passing by or overhead is sure to see it.
Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by ars on Friday December 28, 2012 @04:18PM (#4979607)
The exhaust will clear itself if it's only snow. It's quite hot and will melt the snow very fast.
Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by justin66 on Saturday December 29, 2012 @12:54AM (#4981291)
I tend to agree that the person I was responding to was probably exaggerating the risk, although if you've just spun the car into a field, it's buried in deep snow, and you've got a known leaky exhaust, it couldn't hurt. The "leaky exhaust" part is tricky: I had a friend once whose car's exhaust (and everything else) was so rusty you wouldn't want to sit in it when it was stationary. It was almost comically dangerous the way the car would fill with exhaust smoke.

The value of getting out and clearing the top of the car is very great regardless. A vehicle is much more recognizable as a vehicle when it's not covered with snow.

Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by staunch on Friday December 28, 2012 @12:07PM (#4978400)
Get a winch?
Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by freehunter on Friday December 28, 2012 @02:22PM (#4979058)
I've actually been saving up for a winch. I'd need to get a new bumper to hold a winch though, or mount a hitch to the front end.
Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by JulianMorrison on Friday December 28, 2012 @03:57PM (#4979499)
Get a hand operated winch you can sling around a tree at the top of the ditch, rather than being permanently anchored to the car? Bonus, it can live inside the car and it won't get dinged in the crash.
Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by freehunter on Friday December 28, 2012 @05:05PM (#4979856)
Bumper-mounted winches being used with a proper winch bumper won't take damage in a crash either; if they do, you're likely not driving away from the crash so easy retrieval is unimportant. Off-road and winch bumpers are not designed with crumple zones in mind, they're mounted directly to the frame and the winch itself is tucked behind a 3/16th steel plate and steel tubing surrounding it.

With a front-mounted hitch, though, you can keep the winch inside and just hook it to either the front or the back depending on the needs. The downside is there's one more thing in your car taking up space and becoming a projectile in a crash.

Come-alongs (hand winches) are less than ideal for many reasons I've listed in another reply to your comment. The better solution is to do your best to not need one.

Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by ars on Friday December 28, 2012 @04:28PM (#4979665)
Get one of these:

http://www.harborfreight.com/1200-lb-capacity-cable-puller-3...

http://www.harborfreight.com/4000-lb-capacity-cable-winch-pu...

http://www.harborfreight.com/8000-lb-cable-winch-puller-543....

http://www.harborfreight.com/manual-strap-winch-95541.html

It's only $15 for the cheapest one (they have other types too that mount to the car). Also get a long strap to go with it in case the nearest tree is not close.

You don't want an electric winch anyway - you never know if you'll have power in an emergency.

Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by drone on Friday December 28, 2012 @07:27PM (#4980366)
Having used come-a-longs and hi-lifts as come-a-longs, I would never wish that agony on anyone else. It's better than nothing, but far worse than an electric winch by a long shot.

Generally speaking, if the engine can't start/run, and help is nowhere to be found, winching the vehicle out will be more trouble than its worth. The best part of an electric winch is you may use it in conjunction with the engine when solo, meaning you can generally free the vehicle as soon as you find some traction, rather than constantly advancing, re-entering the vehicle and checking for traction again.

But you're right about and additional strap: one should always have with their winch, at a minimum, a tow strap and a tree saver (plus requisite shackles, snatch blocks, and gloves if using wire rope, or rock guards with synthetic). I once got stuck deep in a ravine, and 150' of synthetic rope fell short of the nearest tree by 5 feet, but a tow strap and tree saver made up the difference and I got to sleep in my bed that night, rather than in the jeep.

Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by freehunter on Friday December 28, 2012 @05:01PM (#4979835)
I've owned an 8000lb come-along in the past. Pulling my truck from the mud, the cable came off the pulley. I replaced it with a new come-along from a different brand, and again the cable hopped the pulley. This damages the pulley and bends the axle, rendering the winch useless. They're less than ideal for vehicle retrieval, especially if doing intense labor is not a great idea (like when you're at risk of hypothermia). Pulling a stuck car with a come-along is a very laborious and time-consuming task.
Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by ricardobeat on Friday December 28, 2012 @05:11PM (#4979879)
There are wheel-mounted winch pullers that are much better suited for the task, since they don't require standing out in the cold or as much physical effort.

http://www.bushwinch.com.au/recoverysystem.html

Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by ars on Saturday December 29, 2012 @08:15PM (#4984111)
That looks really cool, but $1000 for it is insane! It's a small metal drum and some cable.
Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by mobweb on Friday December 28, 2012 @12:40PM (#4978548)
> no cell service, or the cell service is only for Verizon phones

I remember reading somewhere that emergency calls can use any network.

Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by ak217 on Friday December 28, 2012 @12:46PM (#4978575)
The Verizon network is CDMA, which is incompatible with most other phones (GSM).
Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by johnbellone on Friday December 28, 2012 @12:48PM (#4978584)
If you have a phone you can make an emergency call from it as long as there is service. The different networks have different frequencies and if your phone doesn't have the antenna its not going to work. This is more than just CDMA vs. GSM, although not sure about GPRS.

I was a big fan of the Android phones that had AM/FM radios awhile back. At least you'd be able to hear broadcasts to have a general idea of where the storm is heading. I grabbed one of those survival kits that have matches, a knife, first aid, etc.

Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by eigenvector on Friday December 28, 2012 @01:13PM (#4978726)
Most Android phones can receive AM/FM radio using the Bluetooth antenna with a custom ROM that enables that functionality. Most common ROMs include it. Dedicated antennae for that purpose are rare but that's no reason to go without.
Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by eloisant on Friday December 28, 2012 @04:43PM (#4979733)
Samsung phones (at least SGS and SGS2) have FM radio functionality, but it only works with earphones plugged as they serve as the antenna.
Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by johnbellone on Friday December 28, 2012 @01:23PM (#4978772)
I am pretty sure that one of my older phones used the headphones as an antenna?

Again, my Galaxy Nexus doesn't seem to have this functionality, although that's merely me trying to locate the pre-baked application and not finding it. So you're probably right about the ISV not including it.

Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by olex on Friday December 28, 2012 @04:40PM (#4979720)
My last two HTC Android phones had this functionality (the Desire and now the One S). Never used it, but this would be a situation where it could be handy. Although if you're in a car, the car radio probably has better reception.
Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by freehunter on Friday December 28, 2012 @01:29PM (#4978807)
I had previous Windows Mobile phones (Motorola Q and an HTC Touch Pro) that would pick up AM/FM radio so long as headphones were plugged in. I think my Samsung Focus was able to do it as well.
Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by protomyth on Friday December 28, 2012 @11:45PM (#4981161)
A dedicated radio (one with a hand crank) is better, much longer life and not too expensive just to leave in the car's emergency pack. Hand cranked LED isn't bad either.
Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by freehunter on Friday December 28, 2012 @12:50PM (#4978595)
While emergency calls must be routed even if you don't subscribe to a plan with the carrier of your phone, I'm not sure it would get through if you only have a GSM radio in your phone and the only tower nearby is a CDMA tower. Someone might correct me on that. Regardless, it will keep you from calling someone nearby that may be able to help without needing to call for emergency services.
Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by protomyth on Friday December 28, 2012 @01:27PM (#4978798)
Often, in a blizzard, the cell towers fail.

On a side not, at home, the local phone company tends to be pretty good at keeping the line going even when power fails. Last time, I got stuck 20 hours without power, the phone line worked the whole time. The cell towers did not.

Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by rdl on Friday December 28, 2012 @04:24PM (#4979642)
If I lived in a non-urban area, I'd probably keep an Iridium handsets in my car again. $500 or so for a used one, and you can get cheap plans.
Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by protomyth on Friday December 28, 2012 @11:41PM (#4981152)
A CB will do just fine and be able to reach people who might be able to help you.
Re:The Cold Hard Facts of Freezing to Death (1997) by bchallenor on Friday December 28, 2012 @06:35PM (#4980176)
Have you considered carrying an EPIRB too?