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Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by revelation on Tuesday December 25, 2012 @07:02PM (#4967538)
Is there really actual fear today in a western country?

I think actual fear would have to come from injuries to someone you know and can feel empathy towards. Dunbars number suggests theres only very little of that based on the number of deaths due to terrorism.

Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by ryguytilidie on Tuesday December 25, 2012 @09:06PM (#4967853)
Fox News would not exist if people weren't scared of foreigners blowing up their house in Nebraska because some Saudi's crashed a plane into the WTC 11 years ago.
Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by nikcub on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @01:15AM (#4968388)
Fox News launched in '96 and became the #1 cable news channel in 2000.
Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by mayneack on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @03:22AM (#4968619)
It also wasn't what it is today. The current fox news functions because of fear. Remember, in the last decade, MSNBC went from trying to beat fox by supporting Iraq more than them to what they are now, I wouldn't make a whole lot of conclusions of MSNBC programming today based on them circa 2000
Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by tsotha on Thursday December 27, 2012 @03:18PM (#4974849)
Oh, look, you left a mark.
Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by tsotha on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @04:58PM (#4971131)
Fox News exists because the other national broadcasters weren't serving half of the market. Not everyone is interested in getting the Democratic talking points of the day when they watch the news.

That's not to say Fox has a high quality broadcast. It doesn't. But it's no worse than CNN or CBS, and it's certainly better than MSNBC.

Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by gnaritas on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @06:25PM (#4971495)
> Fox News exists because the other national broadcasters weren't serving half of the market

Yes, the half that want to be lied to because reality is too distressing for them; so distressing in fact that they call reality liberal media bias.

Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by tsotha on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @08:20PM (#4971844)
No, actually the half that's tired of being lied to by reporters with a liberal bias. Your "reality" isn't objective reality. Tell me, have you guys found Lucy Ramirez yet? In your, you know, reality?
Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by gnaritas on Thursday December 27, 2012 @12:44AM (#4972502)
Non-sequitur and False equivalence.
Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by tsotha on Thursday December 27, 2012 @01:46AM (#4972621)
No it isn't. That's exactly the sort of thing that makes conservatives distrust the liberal media. Being lied to for political gain.
Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by gnaritas on Thursday December 27, 2012 @09:33AM (#4973409)
False equivalence. Fox lies far more than any other station, finding a lie on CNN doesn't justify the "liberal media" non-sense conservatives have made up.

Conservatives distrust the media because they don't like hearing things that don't jive with the belief system and reality is full of those things; it's as simple as that. Colbert nailed it when he said reality has a liberal bias, as did Stewart when he dubbed Fox bullshit mountain.

Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by tsotha on Thursday December 27, 2012 @03:15PM (#4974829)
>False equivalence. Fox lies far more than any other station, finding a lie on CNN doesn't justify the "liberal media" non-sense conservatives have made up.

If it's false equivalence then the difference lands in my favor. Fox has never used obviously fake documents to try to throw an election like that. And there's reason to believe "Fox lies more than any other station", no matter how many times liberals tell each other that's the case. The lying from CNN and (of course) MSNBC has been epic over the last few weeks.

Oh, and by the way, Rathergate was CBS, not CNN. At least try to get your facts straight.

>Conservatives distrust the media because they don't like hearing things that don't jive with the belief system and reality is full of those things; it's as simple as that.

This is just projection. Leftists in the US are angry at Fox because they no longer control 100% of the narrative. The idea this has anything to do with objective reporting is just conceit on your part.

>Colbert nailed it when he said reality has a liberal bias, as did Stewart when he dubbed Fox bullshit mountain.

The reason people on the left find Colbert and Stewart funny is they tell you what you want to hear. What Colbert "nailed" was his audience, and if you had any capacity for self reflection you would realize this.

Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by gnaritas on Thursday December 27, 2012 @07:14PM (#4975799)
Bwahahaha!!!! I bet you actually believe all the non-sense you're spewing; how cute.
Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by tsotha on Thursday December 27, 2012 @10:18PM (#4976259)
Weak.
Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by gnaritas on Friday December 28, 2012 @12:00PM (#4978369)
Yea, cause I'm so concerned about what a Fox news junkie thinks about anything.
Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by tsotha on Saturday December 29, 2012 @07:51PM (#4984058)
The level of ignorance you've displayed thus far takes its own special talent. I salute you!

It might surprise you to know that, far from being a Fox news "junkie", I haven't watched broadcast television at all for years. But why would you be right about this when you're wrong about literally everything else? People like you are why the founding fathers thought a restricted franchise is a good idea, and I think they were right.

Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by gnaritas on Sunday December 30, 2012 @09:23PM (#4988065)
Nothing quite like being called ignorant by a stupid person.
Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by angrycoder on Thursday December 27, 2012 @04:43AM (#4972896)
How are you guys making out with finding those WMD's in Iraq?
Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by adventured on Thursday December 27, 2012 @06:06AM (#4973006)
Most evidence, including recent data, points to Saddam shipping them to Syria before the invasion began.

Nobody has yet 'officially' explained what Saddam did with the WMD we know for a fact he had. Shipping the weapons to Syria is the only logical explanation for their sudden disappearance.

Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by tsotha on Thursday December 27, 2012 @05:19AM (#4972947)
Why do you ask?
Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by namdnay on Thursday December 27, 2012 @10:05AM (#4973511)
> it's no worse than CNN or CBS, and it's certainly better than MSNBC

We haven't yet seen evidence of the head of CNN or CBS sending memos governing the angle under which the day's stories should be viewed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News_Channel_controversies#...).

However terrible CNN and CBS may be (take for example their outright cheerleading for the second iraq war), they remain organisations devoted to covering the news. Fox is devoted to controlling the news, which isn't the same thing.

Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by tsotha on Thursday December 27, 2012 @03:04PM (#4974769)
I don't find it controversial when a company's management gives editorial directives to its employees. I expect CNN and CBS do the same thing even if we don't have copies of the memos. Certainly it's not difficult to detect an editorial slant in their news coverage.

Why didn't CBS fire Dan Rather immediately when Rathergate came to light? It's hard for me to imagine Fox easing out someone slowly after they'd left its reputation in taters.

>However terrible CNN and CBS may be (take for example their outright cheerleading for the second iraq war), they remain organisations devoted to covering the news.

I haven't seen much evidence of that, especially lately when they've used every possible angle after the Connecticut shooting in their full-throated advocacy of gun control.

Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by gnaritas on Tuesday December 25, 2012 @07:36PM (#4967644)
> Is there really actual fear today in a western country?

Have you met the republican party? Their entire base lives off fear.

> I think actual fear would have to come from injuries to someone you know and can feel empathy towards.

It's not fear of death or injury, but fear of "other", of change, of being marginalized.

Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by cglace on Tuesday December 25, 2012 @09:37PM (#4967941)
> Have you met the republican party? Their entire base lives off fear.

First off not all in the republican party can be characterized this way. You are painting with very broad strokes. Many turn the republican party because they are the closest they can get to their economic beliefs.

> It's not fear of death or injury, but fear of "other", of change, of being marginalized.

Do you honestly believe this? Do you get your views of republicans from reddit and articles you read about people talking about fox news?

Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by gnaritas on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @01:00AM (#4968352)
> First off not all in the republican party can be characterized this way.

Duh. Do I really need to preface every statement I make with "this is a generalization that doesn't apply to every single person" or can I just assume that you have some intelligence and don't assume everyone speaks in absolute terms and that when I said base, that quite obviously doesn't mean everyone.

> You are painting with very broad strokes.

That's rather the point of generalizing; it's useful.

> Many turn the republican party because they are the closest they can get to their economic beliefs.

Hopefully they're sobering up and realizing how ridiculous that choice was.

> Do you honestly believe this?

I observe this, it's not a matter of belief, I live in a red state and see it constantly.

> Do you get your views of republicans from reddit and articles you read about people talking about fox news?

I see, it couldn't possibly be because I know a lot of republicans, it must be Fox news. I live in Arizona, practically the center of republican crazy these days; I don't have to make shit up.

Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by niels_olson on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @04:05PM (#4970897)
+1 to gnaritas side here. I'm in the military, home of record is Texas, grew up in Kansas and Nebraska (what got me to read this thread), spent 95% of my adult life south of the Mason-Dixon line. Not all Republicans are crazy, but the disease of "Republican crazy" is rampant. See XKCD #1127 for another perspective. https://xkcd.com/1127/
Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by gnaritas on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @05:10PM (#4971182)
Also did the military. And yes, not all republicans are crazy, but most crazies are republicans.
Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by neumann_alfred on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @12:55AM (#4968341)
What is an "economic belief"? Seeing how broken our financial system and ways of thinking about it are, I take it it's some kind of religion, including all the baggage that comes with such an approach?
Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by roc on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @02:46PM (#4970544)
> "Many turn the republican party because they are the closest they can get to their economic beliefs."

So did you choose the word "Beliefs" intentionally to evoke an evidence-light position?

Because Republican Party economic reality is further from those stated beliefs than Democratic Party economic reality.

Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by obstacle1 on Tuesday December 25, 2012 @11:32PM (#4968150)
"They kinda come close to my views w/r/t one small aspect of national policy" is a pretty terrible reason to vote for a party. If you're correct that many citizens vote this way, you'd all be better off withholding from participation until you can fix your electoral system.
Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by jacobn on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @12:45AM (#4968314)
Relevant: http://www.theamericanconservative.com/open-minded-conservat...

Supposedly based on an actual study - I'll let you vet the sources ;)

Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by gnaritas on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @01:05AM (#4968360)
Not relevant, I live in Arizona and lack of contact with conservatives is not an issue; hell, I wish it were.
Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by dhimes on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @08:22AM (#4969131)
Not a rant, just an observation: Republicans aren't conservative. They are military-industrial socialists. That's why things like Fox get annoying: they go around pointing fingers at the others, yet push out their own stimulus packages (via military spending increases) and their own flavor of socialism.

A lot of "true" conservatives have left the party.

FTR, I don't classify myself as either liberal or conservative; I've been a member of the Democratic party and the Republican party, and left them both. I can't stand either of them. And I really can't stand hypocrisy.

Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by gnaritas on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @10:08AM (#4969424)
These true conservatives might have left the party, but they're still voting for the party because I don't see any big shift in representatives yet that mirrors this big exodus you speak of. I know many such ex-republicans, they all still voted Romney and republican despite their vocal protests of the party.
Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by ams6110 on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @11:09AM (#4969684)
Given that Romney got a lower turnout than McCain, it certainly seems that some number of people have left the party, or are at least witholding support for the time being.
Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by gnaritas on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @11:29AM (#4969788)
I'll grant you that; but abstaining doesn't help much. They should be splitting the party and separating the real conservatives from the religious right.
Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by dhimes on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @02:50PM (#4970573)
That's going to take time- plus I'm not sure they will attain critical mass for a party to succeed. I bet most self-professed 'conservatives' would argue that Republicans are conservative. It seems to be a religion or something.
Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by cobrausn on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @11:40AM (#4969822)
That's not all too different from Democrats who criticize Obama w.r.t. drone warfare, whistle blower prosecution, etc, but vote for him anyhow.
Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by gnaritas on Wednesday December 26, 2012 @05:14PM (#4971199)
It's much different; we criticize Obama but don't consider him a DINO and want to kick him out of the party. Republicans tend to eat their own, they want ideological purity in a way Democrats never have. Democrats tolerate ideological differences within the party and within congressional votes vastly more than republicans do.
Re:Congress, at Last Minute, Drops Requirement to Obtain War... by tsotha on Thursday December 27, 2012 @03:20PM (#4974864)
>It's not fear of death or injury, but fear of "other", of change, of being marginalized.

Good lord. How old are you that you haven't realize this "fear of other" stuff is just academia bullshit?