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Re:IV: Don't Mind Our 2000 Shell Companies, That's Totally N... by arbuge on Friday December 21, 2012 @09:41AM (#4952799)
Most people don't realize how bad the patent troll situation is. You can be hit by patent trolls for operating a boring online store with nothing more sophisticated than a shopping cart. Happens all the time. Here's just one example:

http://www.plainsite.org/flashlight/case.html?id=1888562

At least some of those defendants ended up settling and paying off that particular troll by the way. Petmeds is a public company and mentioned that in one of its 10K filings.

ps. my understanding is that many/most trolls demand non-disclosures from companies they settle with, which would explain why you don't hear more from the victim companies getting mugged by these crooks.

Re:IV: Don't Mind Our 2000 Shell Companies, That's Totally N... by lnanek2 on Friday December 21, 2012 @12:34PM (#4953610)
Haha, yeah. It's always pretty funny when in a room with successful app developers and seeing how many have been hit with litigious welcome packages for having an upgrade [to pro version] button like myself, or other trivial feature in their app. It's like a coming of age marker for app developers. Once you get successful enough to look like you have money, you are going to get a welcome package. A lot of devs won't even say what specifically since the settlements forbid it.
Re:IV: Don't Mind Our 2000 Shell Companies, That's Totally N... by javajosh on Friday December 21, 2012 @12:59PM (#4953720)
Of course, this practice of settling and signing an NDA needs to end. I think there's room for a company of lawyers that does nothing but fight patent trolls very publicly- perhaps with a solid dose of anti-patent lobbying on the side. The key question, of course, is whether such a service could be priced reasonably - clearly the age of $500/hr lawyers doing bespoke work to respond to computer-generated paperwork is not really working out so well.

I suppose whether such a company would fly hinges on whether or not there are lawyers willing to work for ordinary salaries. The interesting thing here is that if this company is technologically savvy then I'd imagine that a great deal of the litigation effort could be automated, again yielding good cost savings.

As a programmer and a concerned citizen I would jump at the chance to start and/or work for a company like this.

Re:IV: Don't Mind Our 2000 Shell Companies, That's Totally N... by rayiner on Friday December 21, 2012 @03:39PM (#4954420)
If I were putting together something like this, I'd hire a bunch of competent but relatively inexperienced lawyers starting at $35k/year in a place like Iowa or North Dakota. Spend six months training them to quickly bat down truely meritless suits, and to recognize when they get something possibly meritorious that needs to be kicked up the chain. It would be quite doable at those prices, and is indeed more or less the model used for e.g. run of the mill insurance work.

I think you still need changes in the law to make it easier to distinguish meritorious from unmeritorious litigation. Getting rid of things like the presumption of validity, raising the bar for novelty and obviousness, etc, would all make it easier to handle each case cheaply.

Re:IV: Don't Mind Our 2000 Shell Companies, That's Totally N... by javajosh on Friday December 21, 2012 @04:13PM (#4954544)
I'd hire a bunch of competent but relatively inexperienced lawyers starting at $35k/year

That was my initial thought, too, although I was thinking more like 80k. At that rate you could attract idealistic, smart lawyers. At 35k you're attracting desperate lawyers.

Also, the place to setup shop would be SF proper. That is where the customers are, and for any business, especially one like this, customers are most important. That said, from what I've read the trolls do a lot of business out of East Texas, so that would make sense too.

The interesting thing about this business is that it's intended to be a stopgap measure until the law changes. That is, if it is very successful it will go away. Also, to avoid becoming the enemy (from what I've read IV sells "patent insurance" - basically protection money against IV) I'd make it as transparent as allowed by statute, and a non-profit.

Re:IV: Don't Mind Our 2000 Shell Companies, That's Totally N... by rayiner on Friday December 21, 2012 @04:35PM (#4954631)
If the goal is to cheaply handle crappy lawsuits, you need to maximize volume while minimizing costs. You might have a business development effort in San Francisco, but the actual work can easily be done from an office in Omaha. You don't need smart, idealistic Berkeley grads to churn through meritless suits. $35k + benefits is a very good salary in Omaha and will attract perfectly competent people ($35k would attract only desparate people in San Francisco). They won't have much experience, but you can amortize the cost of a good training program over a large volume of work.

Much of your value add is going to be in streamlining the process: developing tools and processes to minimize the time it takes to handle a particular suit, and aggregating knowledge about particular patents and particular trolls to amortize the cost of dealing with them over multiple clients. At the end of the day you need a licensed lawyer to sign off on any filings, but everything else can be automated.

Re:IV: Don't Mind Our 2000 Shell Companies, That's Totally N... by arbuge on Friday December 21, 2012 @07:21PM (#4955252)
Some interesting ideas in this thread... couple of points re: the above:

- clients are all over, not just SF. Like I said all it takes is just a simple online store for the trolls to come after you, i.e. it's not just software developers getting sued. It's also their clients.

- don't hold your breath about the law changing. The goal here should really be invalidating software patents lock, stock, and barrel - that's not something likely to happen anytime soon.

- the non-profit idea is a good one. If enough companies contributed 1% of revenue/profit/funds raised to an effort like this one, it could probably get going... I personally wish I had the time to organize something like this.

Re:IV: Don't Mind Our 2000 Shell Companies, That's Totally N... by javajosh on Friday December 21, 2012 @07:48PM (#4955314)
The people who would be interested in this are the VCs themselves, as their portfolio companies are at risk in aggregate. Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised if there are ad hoc anti-troll legal teams associated with the major VCs already. But the key is reducing the cost to fight, and the cost will only go down with scale, and no VC has a large enough portfolio, I'd imagine, to really get the cost down
Re:IV: Don't Mind Our 2000 Shell Companies, That's Totally N... by rayiner on Friday December 21, 2012 @07:53PM (#4955327)
> If enough companies contributed 1% of revenue/profit/funds raised

I think you're overestimating how much companies spend on patent litigation. People have been throwing around the number $100 million for how much Apple spent on patent litigation in 2011. That's 0.1% of their 2011 revenues. At a typical Fortune 1000-ish company, total spending on outside counsel (which includes not just litigation, but transactional advice, tax advice, etc) is on the order of 0.2% of revenues.

Re:IV: Don't Mind Our 2000 Shell Companies, That's Totally N... by GregBuchholz on Friday December 21, 2012 @06:58PM (#4955176)
It seems like there needs to be a litigation insurance aspect to this as well. A policy which would cover the costs of just the lawyers, not the costs of any settlements or judgement awards. How much would the premium be for a policy that offers $100,000 of protection with a $5,000 deductible and a 10% copay? The first response letter would be free. The more specific the coverage, it would seem to make the premium. So this would be for patent infringment lawsuits only. And maybe the upper cap is increased to $200,000 for cases filed in East Texas.

Here are the benefits as I see when the troll come-a-calling:

- For those with the insurance: "Yay, we now have some breathing room, since we're lawyered-up, and most of it is paid for." - For those with out the insurance. They'd still want to hire the "Anti-troll LLC" company for the litigation, since the trolls wouldn't know if the insurance policy was in effect, and would have to assume that they have a real fight on their hands. - If "Anit-troll LLC" was popular enough, it would also seem to be a partial end-run around the NDA thing, since the same law firm is involved, and the same lawyers are involved in multiple cases.

Re:IV: Don't Mind Our 2000 Shell Companies, That's Totally N... by sseveran on Friday December 21, 2012 @01:59PM (#4953986)
What you really need is a number of top tier IP lawyers.
Re:IV: Don't Mind Our 2000 Shell Companies, That's Totally N... by s353 on Friday December 21, 2012 @01:10PM (#4953766)
But of course before 1991-1992, there were no online catalogs. It was an entirely novel idea brought to us by Charles E. Hill. If not for Mr. Hill, there could be no eBay, no PetMeds, no online shopping as we know it.
Re:IV: Don't Mind Our 2000 Shell Companies, That's Totally N... by zemanel on Friday December 21, 2012 @05:51PM (#4954956)
Someone should do a CrunchBase + Wikileaks web app for patent trolls. PatentCrunchTrollLeaks.com? :-)