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Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by unpop on Thursday August 20, 2026 @08:11PM (#49381999)
Unpopular opinion:

How would it help the world for Aaron Swartz to download 3.5 million research and primary source PDFs, and illegally sneak into off-limits areas during night time, PDFs that presumably could have been downloaded by anyone legally by paying for access? If the goal was gratis access for all citizens, why not instead campaign lawfully for a change in research and information sharing practices generally, or for the state or federation to subsidize gratis access to the articles for the public? Why was theft a moral imperative, especially when the public could access material for a fee? If the goal was for the public good, why not figure out a legal way to do it? If it requires money to make something like JSTOR work, why not have the state fund it, or have the state run a competing service? Or make a competing private company?

The previous motivation for the stuff with PACER arguably made way more sense, though that was peculiar to begin with.

Did Aaron Swartz not at least try to think about or ask about why JSTOR costs money, and why competitors seemingly had not gotten as popular? Did he not care, including how JSTOR can be argued to have benefits to scientific research? Was his conscience just an act?

Aaron Swartz was part of Reddit, and Reddit in the early days lured people in with free articles, but that would not require 3.5 million PDFs to do, only a few, so I do not consider theories about that kind of motive credible.

The book and more being thrown at him was way too harsh, but there was a plea deal at the very least.

Meta should of course be prosecuted as well, but the LLM/AI craze is rather insane and manipulative to start with, and also promoted by Ycombinator and bots here. And there are presumably no people hired by Meta sneaking into places during the night, apart from what CIA and other agency connections that Meta has and agencies that Meta is officially owned and controlled by, like how Ycombinator is likely owned and controlled by them.

I find it hard to care about Aaron Swartz relative to caring about stopping WW3 and nuclear war, the latter might result in many millions of deaths, or even more than that, and might bode very poorly for the chances for the human species to avoid extinction.

What I still do not understand is his suicide. But the whole thing was utterly strange to begin with, him sneaking around during the night, rejecting plea deals, having a whole lawyer team, etc. Was he harassed by CIA's/Five Eyes'/Mossad's thugs or other agencies or private companies for other reasons unrelated to the JSTOR strangeness? Wikileaks mentioned Aaron Swartz as a possible leaker after his death.

Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by zymhan on Thursday August 20, 2026 @08:18PM (#49382067)
>How would it help the world for Aaron Swartz to download 3.5 million research and primary source PDFs

Knowledge is power.

Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by unpop on Thursday August 20, 2026 @08:40PM (#49382235)
So, pay for access, or go to your local library, or browse the internet, or get free access in a similar way that Aaron Swartz did? Knowledge often requires funding to be created in the first place.
Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by DANmode on Friday August 21, 2026 @03:10AM (#49384799)
Why does every research team and lab use SciHub and/or Library Genesis?
Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by foldr on Friday August 21, 2026 @04:03AM (#49385179)
I mean, they don’t, exclusively, or no-one would be giving money to JSTOR. And certainly, no-one would be scanning millions of old journal articles for free.
Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by DANmode on Friday August 21, 2026 @10:32AM (#49388754)
Comparatively few individuals are giving money to JSTOR these days.

Mostly institutions that they’ve previously captured.

And yes: not sure how you missed it, but for like a decade or more people have been scanning in millions of papers and books.

Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by foldr on Friday August 21, 2026 @10:41AM (#49388904)
I don't know where people get the idea that JSTOR is one of the bad guys. It's a non-profit that scans old journal articles that would otherwise be a huge pain to access. It costs money to do that. What specifically have they done that you disapprove of?
Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by DANmode on Friday August 21, 2026 @10:54AM (#49389081)
I don’t know where you got the idea I was talking about my opinion of JSTOR.
Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by foldr on Friday August 21, 2026 @02:48PM (#49392330)
Beats me what you're talking about, then. The literal answer to your original question is that people use SciHub and Library Genesis because they're free. But they're free because they infringe copyright. Maybe Swartz was opposed to copyright per se or maybe he was trying to make a point about free availability of journal articles associated with publicly funded research. Either way, JSTOR is the wrong target. JSTOR doesn't hold the copyright on those articles. JSTOR does actual legit work to make scientific articles easier to access – which is exactly what Swartz seemed to be in favor of.
Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by DANmode on Friday August 21, 2026 @04:33PM (#49393429)
It’s free AND convenient.

Shortening path and timelines to info, innovation, further research.

That’s the end of the calculation.

The rest is just money-clutching noise.

Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by DANmode on Friday August 21, 2026 @04:34PM (#49393444)
> JSTOR does actual legit work to make scientific articles easier to access

Just link (or specifically mention) a few things they’ve done that people really appreciate.

No need to keep repeating the claim.

Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by foldr on Friday August 21, 2026 @04:43PM (#49393557)
JSTOR provides digital access to print journal archives. That's useful to anyone who wants to read an old journal article without going to a physical library. I used to have to go to the library, dig out the relevant issue of Linguistic Inquiry, and photocopy it. Then in 2015, JSTOR started providing access to the entire scanned Linguistic Inquiry archive, so I could access all of those issues digitally.

I don't understand what you mean by "money-clutching noise" in your other comment. I think enabling free universal public access to historical journal articles would be a great idea. However, some public money would then need to go towards the costs of that, and some reform of copyright law might also be needed.

Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by DANmode on Friday August 21, 2026 @04:56PM (#49393692)
> JSTOR provides digital access to print journal archives

So does SciHub.

Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by foldr on Friday August 21, 2026 @05:05PM (#49393776)
SciHub mainly redistributes scans of print archives made by JSTOR and other organisations. And it does not have everything that JSTOR has. For example, this paper is not, as far as I can tell, available on SciHub:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/4178697

Somehow, you appreciate SciHub without appreciating one of the organizations that did the actual work necessary to make many of those PDFs exist in the first place:

https://about.jstor.org/news/jstor-and-apex-covantage-mark-2...

Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by DANmode on Friday August 21, 2026 @08:48PM (#49395524)
Are you being intentionally obtuse?

If the JSTOR copy didn’t exist, the pre-print copy would be scraped from the author’s website,

or the text / results submitted by the author or someone close anonymously.

Less, more slowly, but the same point.

Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by foldr on Saturday August 22, 2026 @05:35AM (#49398080)
Sure, we’ll scrape journal articles from the 1950s from the authors’ websites...

Many more recent articles also aren’t available on the authors’ websites, such as the one I linked.

Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by DANmode on Friday August 21, 2026 @04:46PM (#49393591)
Public money does go to the costs of that.

That’s where most of the PDFs come from.

Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by foldr on Friday August 21, 2026 @04:47PM (#49393600)
Hmm, no. In the case of old print journal archives scanned by JSTOR, it's JSTOR paying the cost of the scanning.
Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by DANmode on Friday August 21, 2026 @08:49PM (#49395532)
Anyone can scan, host, and curate - including one or many peers.

We do not need any entity in between researchers and other researchers.

Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by foldr on Saturday August 22, 2026 @05:41AM (#49398104)
Practically speaking, no-one is going to scan centuries' worth of historical journal articles for free. And JSTOR isn’t really an entity outside the research community; it’s a non-profit that grew from within it.
Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by DANmode on Saturday August 22, 2026 @07:01PM (#49404702)
I think we’re talking past each other mostly because I start to lose value on most research for my topics of interest that are more than two or three decades old, let alone five or six.

This may be different for others.

Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by foldr on Sunday August 23, 2026 @06:53AM (#49407781)
So, this discussion started with me saying that:

> [JSTOR is] a non-profit that scans old journal articles that would otherwise be a huge pain to access

You'd think that would pretty obviously include the vast swathes of material published before the internet and PDF preprints were a thing (and the considerable amount of subsequent research that just never got uploaded to anyone's website, for whatever reason).

Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by DANmode on Sunday August 23, 2026 @03:21PM (#49411617)
Okay, so why can’t the volunteers scanning for Anna’s Archive perform this again?

Why does it need to be technically centralized and politically weak?

Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by foldr on Sunday August 23, 2026 @04:12PM (#49412160)
Anna's Archive is primarily a meta search engine. I see that they've put out a call for volunteers, but I don't think any significant part of their archive consists of volunteer scans.

As to your 'why' question, we're talking about boring, thankless work that in many cases breaks the law. It's not exactly surprising that we don't see millions of people signing up to do it for free!

I don't understand your second paragraph.

Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by DANmode on Monday August 24, 2026 @02:05AM (#49415724)
I simply don’t see JSTOR outlasting (as an organization, or a technology/archive) individual contributors and torrent trackers.

Solution which does not require millions of people =]

Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by foldr on Monday August 24, 2026 @04:32AM (#49416822)
At present I don’t see individual contributors making any significant contribution towards scanning old academic journals. Why would this change in the future? There was at least a decade where the technology to enable this existed, and where most older issues of most journals were not available online, and yet the army of volunteer scanners failed to materialize. Now that there is already a non-profit doing this archival work at very high quality and with economies of scale, it seems even less likely that such a volunteer effort will materialize. But if you want to prove me wrong, get off HN and go scan some old journal articles!
Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by DANmode on Tuesday August 25, 2026 @01:29AM (#49429450)
Probably just going to keep reading the news ones,

and if I want to synthesize information from old ones, I’ll query a robot.

This is still research we’re talking about, right? Not a first-edition of famous literature?

Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by foldr on Tuesday August 25, 2026 @10:48AM (#49435142)
'Research' includes subjects such as history, where old documents are important for obvious reasons. Besides such cases, I gave a concrete example above of a paper from the 90s that's available online because JSTOR scanned it. Hardly ancient history.

>I’ll query a robot.

Which has read all the old papers that JSTOR has scanned. That's why it's able to synthesise them for you!

Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by DANmode on Wednesday August 26, 2026 @12:17PM (#49451656)
> I gave a concrete example above of a paper from the 90s that's available online because JSTOR scanned it. Hardly ancient history.

For certain sciences, 36 years is two lifetimes. Like I said: we’re talking past each other due to our research needs.

Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by foldr on Sunday August 30, 2026 @11:41AM (#49499684)
We're talking past each other because you only care about your own research needs and apparently can't see any value in opening access to documents which other researchers might need. I am not a historian, but even so, it's not lost on me that a historian might want to access some old documents. Just because you think that JSTOR isn't useful to you personally (though, I can guarantee that your 'robots' have been trained on it) doesn't mean that it's not serving a useful function to the academic research community as a whole.

One can imagine the quality of research in fields where researchers can't be bothered to read anything that wasn't published in the last five minutes, and rely on other people's partial and possibly inaccurate summaries of key results. But that is another topic.

Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by arionhardison on Thursday August 20, 2026 @08:38PM (#49382222)
The point here is that as you stated: "you still do not understand". For those of us that have been under the thumb of the judicial system it can feel like the world is on you. We have no idea of his mental state, we have no idea of the nuance or motivation but what I do think we know is that the actions of the state here far exceeded any interpretation of what would be deemed an appropriate punishment for the said "crime" committed. What we do understand is that if he hand not been attacked by an over-zealous prosecutor there is a far greater probability he would have been able to handle the situation in a logical manner and maybe even still be here today to defend himself.

We are not asserting that any specific outcome is empirically superior to another just that given the facts of the case, it was not adjudicated fairy given what we know of similar cases.

Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by jongjong on Thursday August 20, 2026 @10:48PM (#49383118)
Yes. 100%, the idea that we are all equal under the law is a joke.

And the worst part is that it looks that way from the perspective of the people at the top. You only understand that it's not the case if you are not among the privileged few.

So your point about "We have no idea of his mental state" is highly pertinent. I also would emphasize that he was a highly rational guy and his mental state was likely a rational consequence of his environment.

[dead]
Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by arionhardison on Thursday August 20, 2026 @09:36PM (#49382609)
You are a coward; which is why you cannot use your name or identity and only feel comfortable insulting people online because it makes you feel like a big bad keyboard warrior.

I feel bad for you because not only is your argument irrational and baseless its not even entertaining. I am not one of the "thugs" that harassed him. I never met him; but I was a huge fan. I am also not employed by anyone that would participate in such things. If you had even a modicum of intelligence you would just look at my other post and easily infer as such.

I suggest you drink some water, check-in with a loved one and get some rest.

Be well.

Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by yourselfyoudesc on Friday August 21, 2026 @02:46AM (#49384615)
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Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by psd1 on Friday August 21, 2026 @04:42AM (#49385432)
Commiserations on the abuse from that sockpuppet. Please don't let it dent your enthusiasm for the community: you are welcome, and i wish you long life and health.
Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by photochemsyn on Thursday August 20, 2026 @09:16PM (#49382477)
How would it help the world for Aaron Swartz to download 3.5 million research and primary source PDFs?

Example 1: antibiotic and antiviral production technology for developing countries. Even if we limit ourselves to out-of-patent molecules, the primary literature describing the discovery, production, modification and testing of life-saving antibiotics was, at the time of Aaron Swartz, largely hidden behind strict paywalls that typically were accessed through a university library subscription. Access to all that information allows countries and institutions with very limited resources to set up generic medical production pipelines for life-saving medications they couldn’t afford to import - or to become international market competitors to established interests.

Again, that’s just restricting the argument to out-of-patent products that can be generically manufactured with no legal issues. What about life-saving but patented products that are too expensive for poor countries and regions to buy on the open market? Does that added-value IP charge justify unnecessary deaths in such cases?

And about that IP - the vast majority of paywalled research literature was produced with taxpayer funds delivered via government funding agencies, and there’s a very good legal argument that this alone puts it into the public domain. If private companies want to set up Bell Labs 2.0 with no government funding and patent everything they discover, that’s their own capex risk, but just hovering around and scooping up publicly funded discoveries via exclusive licensing deals with universities and researchers makes no sense - instead, patents should be available to any citizen of the government that put up the funds, and research papers should be available to anyone.

As far as the argument that widespread distribution of the knowledge to produce antibiotic, antiviral, and other complex biomolecular products represents a biological weapons risk? Notably that’s why no LLM provider service will help develop technical protocols for antibiotics production, or insulin, or anything similar - claimed dual-use risk fears. This conveniently slows the rise of legitimate independent competition in the pharmaceutical sector, which helps if the goal is maximizing profit margins via monopoly power. Bioweapons production realistically requires nation-state or large-corporation scale resources, and the solution is not obfuscation of basic knowledge but rather international treaties, select agent rules, laboratory operation and equipment purchase licensing requirements, etc.

That’s just one sector - there are at least a dozen other examples besides biomolecular drugs of ‘how it would help the world’ to make all published research literature available to anyone with a network connection, ask any LLM to enumerate them.

Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by uarefag on Friday August 21, 2026 @02:39AM (#49384569)
"It would help the world if we force candy makers to give out candy for free!"

"Give them money in return for the candy such that they can sustain the work? No way, easier to enslave them and work them to death without compensation."

"What do you mean that there is no one interested in candy making????? Time to enslave some randos and force them to figure out how to make candy. And then repeat enslavement once they have been worked to death."

Re:Aaron Swartz was prosecuted for scraping, while Meta does... by psd1 on Friday August 21, 2026 @04:57AM (#49385544)
Hi @dang, the reason I've flagged this account is not this comment itself, but the extremely suspicious account with the same creation date that posted vile abuse to arionhardison.