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Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by a_e_k on Monday August 17, 2026 @01:46AM (#49326941)
Like the old proverb: "The marvel is not that the bear dances well, but that the bear dances at all."
Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by bitwize on Monday August 17, 2026 @02:57AM (#49327324)
Indeed. LLMs resemble human intelligence in more or less the same way that the output of the TI-99/4A speech synthesizer resembles a human voice.
Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by coldtea on Monday August 17, 2026 @03:51AM (#49327640)
Not if an LLM over chat can fool most people they're talking to a human (which it can), where the TI-99 speech synthesizer voice absolutely can not.
Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by shafyy on Monday August 17, 2026 @04:42AM (#49327955)
Can it? I feel like I instantly recognize if I am chatting with an LLM or a human
Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by coldtea on Monday August 17, 2026 @07:18AM (#49329173)
"Feel" is doing a lot of work here.

You can recognize 70% of those (true positive rate) and still have a false negative rate of 30%, while thinking you got 100% of the AI ones!

The problem is that you'd be oblivious to those you don't recognize.

Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by raducu on Monday August 17, 2026 @10:28AM (#49331595)
But the Turing test involves a conversation you can steer and I think that's where indeed it's a lot easier to smell LLMs.
Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by shafyy on Tuesday August 18, 2026 @09:03AM (#49345031)
70%? Are we just making up numbers now?
Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by piva00 on Monday August 17, 2026 @05:00AM (#49328114)
I was quite surprised on how difficult it is to tell when chatting with an uncensored LLM a friend is running (it's too big to run on any of my computers but he got some B200s). You can input your own "system prompt" to make it behave like a normal internet user and the prose writes very similarly to internet comments with none of the LLMisms from ChatGPT, Claude, Grok, etc.
Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by shafyy on Tuesday August 18, 2026 @09:02AM (#49345022)
Yes, I'm sure it's possible to get LLMs to respond more like an average human would.
Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by IMTDb on Monday August 17, 2026 @04:59AM (#49328108)
Emphasis on "feel"
Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by tapland on Monday August 17, 2026 @04:55AM (#49328076)
Can't even tell if you're real or a bot by reading one comment.

Great times!

Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by zahlman on Monday August 17, 2026 @05:01AM (#49328125)
> Not if an LLM over chat can fool most people they're talking to a human (which it can)

I keep hearing this claim, and yet I keep seeing LLM output which is trivially distinguished from human writing. I really can't understand how this gap persists; but then, there seem to have been at least some people who couldn't sniff out ELIZA, back in the day, too.

Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by coldtea on Monday August 17, 2026 @05:11AM (#49328209)
>I keep hearing this claim, and yet I keep seeing LLM output which is trivially distinguished from human writing.

That's mostly true for longer LLM output with all the sycophancy / LinkedIn bias thrown in.

Make it casual conversation or comments, and give it instructions on appearing casual, or even better kill the censoring and fixed-prompt (with an open model), and it's orders of magnitude more difficult, unless if you suspect it and try specifically tailored prompts to sniff it.

There's no shortage of people obliviously discussing with AI bots in comment sections.

Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by zahlman on Monday August 17, 2026 @05:16AM (#49328253)
At the bottom of this very submission are a bunch of dead comments that are very obviously LLM-generated.
Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by lukan on Monday August 17, 2026 @05:42AM (#49328455)
And that is proof that all LLM comments are easily found out? Also, easily found out by average humans? (this is not a average forum here)
Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by akie on Monday August 17, 2026 @05:39AM (#49328435)
Ok, you and I can easily spot LLM text. So what? The Turing test has still been passed, as is clear by people falling in love with ChatGPT, not believing something is AI, and by continuously claiming this or that is a bot.

People, many of them at least, cannot make this distinction anymore. You can, I can, but people as a whole are having problems with that.

Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by bluebarbet on Monday August 17, 2026 @06:24AM (#49328755)
>You can, I can

Even this (assuming it's even true) will likely not be true in some near-term future.

>continuously claiming this or that is a bot

I see it as a contemporary form of religious thinking. Like (say) pilgrims seeing blood on a statue of the virgin, plenty of people are now seeing the hand of AI in everything they read. If you want to see something hard enough, it tends to become magically visible.

Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by akie on Monday August 17, 2026 @06:54AM (#49328988)
The most interesting part of your reply is that you're not challenging the claim that the Turing test has been passed. I think it's a given, by now.
Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by bluebarbet on Monday August 17, 2026 @06:59AM (#49329030)
Sure. Of course it's been passed.
Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by zahlman on Monday August 17, 2026 @07:54PM (#49339316)
By this standard, the Turing test was also passed by ELIZA, but nobody serious actually gave it that credit. Aside from which, the understanding of that concept in popular media (both the nature of the test itself, and its supposed significance) has drifted way away from what Turing was saying.
Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by a2dam on Monday August 17, 2026 @08:02AM (#49329504)
By definition, you won't be able to tell the ones that are fooling you apart.
Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by StilesCrisis on Monday August 17, 2026 @07:32AM (#49329269)
Many, many people became friends/got romantically entangled with GPT-4o, to the point where OpenAI struggled to replace it due to user backlash.

Most users aren't very critical of the output. They just want a sycophantic ear, and 4o was perfect for that task. It's not _good_ but there is high demand for it.

Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by akoboldfrying on Monday August 17, 2026 @08:29AM (#49329774)
https://arxiv.org/abs/2503.23674

From the abstract: "When prompted to adopt a humanlike persona, GPT-4.5 was judged to be the human 73% of the time: significantly more often than interrogators selected the real human participant. LLaMa-3.1, with the same prompt, was judged to be the human 56% of the time"

Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by CamperBob2 on Monday August 17, 2026 @12:07PM (#49333276)
I keep hearing this claim, and yet I keep seeing LLM output which is trivially distinguished from human writing.

That's because they're trained that way. If you trained a modern frontier LLM with the explicit goal of passing the Turing test, it would have no difficulty doing so.

Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by zahlman on Monday August 17, 2026 @07:56PM (#49339338)
Turn on showdead and look at the killed comments on this thread. (Every thread remotely related to LLMs seems to attract this behaviour.) If it's so easy to get it right, how is there such a high fraction of failures?
Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by CamperBob2 on Monday August 17, 2026 @08:47PM (#49339732)
You've hit on the load-bearing crux of the matter. I have no idea.
Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by Tade0 on Monday August 17, 2026 @07:57AM (#49329446)
Does that mean it's intelligent?

To me it just means they can brilliantly fake human conversation - the original design goal of Large Language Models.

It's really easy to tell if you're talking to an LLM if you ask a question that requires actually knowing things, not going for the first search result of a tool call or whatever most popular answer was embedded in the weights.

For this reason even the most sophisticated models still require system prompts, skills and all that other crap.

Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by bonoboTP on Monday August 17, 2026 @08:12AM (#49329607)
Most people are already at the anger phase, not at denial anymore. Get on with the times.
Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by snapcaster on Monday August 17, 2026 @08:30AM (#49329788)
Why does this matter?
Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by Tade0 on Monday August 17, 2026 @02:11PM (#49335227)
We're checking for intelligence, not faking intelligence, no?
Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by snapcaster on Wednesday August 19, 2026 @03:39PM (#49366226)
no, we're trying to do work effectively and quickly
Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by coldtea on Monday August 17, 2026 @03:10PM (#49336103)
>Does that mean it's intelligent? To me it just means they can brilliantly fake human conversation

That's exactly the criteria we used to assume for over half a century for it finally being intelligent: the Turing Test.

And what does "brilliantly fake human conversation" even mean if not some kind of intelligence? It's like saying "He is not good at math, he just brilliantly proves theorems".

Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by freehorse on Monday August 17, 2026 @03:06AM (#49327381)
I also believed that, but seeing qwen 27b overengineering solutions in a bit too familiar way in the article, I started doubting that.
Re:Qwen 3.8 27B is excellent, but it defaults to overthinkin... by tiahura on Monday August 17, 2026 @08:47AM (#49329979)
Find memories of the prank phone call marathons during the summer of 85 when my friend got the speech synthesizer for his TI-99.