I feel like we're probably going to have to give up something, most probably anonymity, to get back to anything like sanity. We'll see communities that are militantly anti-AI where it's hard to get in and easy to get kicked out, and it will probably cost money and require you to divulge who you really are. It could still be semi-anonymous at the user level but not at the administrative level.

I'd like to see something like that take off, because I'd be willing to give it a try. I also think the communities should be limited. Maybe have several sizes and see how it plays. Something that never grows beyond 250. Never past 1000. Something along those lines.

Relatedly, I'm just about on board with the idea of a modern day Compuserve or Prodigy. Pay to play, but in return you get no ads, no malware, no algorithms, no AI. A gated community for the Internet.

Those plans might work to give a nice sane internet experience to the folks that are willing to put in some money and effort.

But most people will still opt to stay on the slop-filled web because it’s free and because they like being angry. And as long as they stay the societal problems that stem from the toxic internet will live on.

I agree, it will filter for a certain kind of person, and most probably the people who are not a problem on today's Internet. If we cannot tamp down the filth that comes along with emphatic anonymity, then at least we can create some places without it. I'm getting to the point where I may pull the plug on my Internet as soon as I retire. Kinda hate to do that, because I remember when it didn't suck (at least not everywhere).

IMO once upon a time Facebook could have been that place, though maybe that ship has sailed now. There was a time when I thought they could choose to offer a premium experience for anyone willing to pay and there would have been a small but real subset of users who would go for it. Charge $25/mo (which I believe is approximately what they make off a normal US user) in return for zero ads, zero algorithm, complete control over the experience. Add another level above that which includes actively moderated members-only discussion forums.

Giving up anonymity would be giving up on the entire idea wholesale.

Small forums is the answer. In spain they are still popular and after some time it feels like an small town in the good sense, you know everyone and everyone knows you. Of course small forums will not IPO

Tildes is nice, Hubski's a nice slow and thoughtful

Thanks for the rec, I hadn't heard of it but Tildes looks very pleasant.

It really is

I'm very interested in these small-ish forum communities. They're always invite only, however. I guess that's what must be done to keep it sane.

You put it there yourself. The community can't be there to maximize engagement.

> I think we simply don't know how to create online communities that make any sense yet.

We do, and we knew decades ago.

The problem is, they can't become large or useful. That limitation is inherent, and due to human social behaviour.

When people here complain about HN becoming Reddit, they get that snide HN guideline thrown at them. I mostly refuse to abide, and continue to call out and downvote/flag Reddit-tier comments. Fighting the redditization of HN is what will save this place.