News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Why is it all in the kernel? by inigyou on Wednesday August 05, 2026 @07:56AM (#49181597)
That isn't true, as there are many things that can bring down the machine. If your X or Wayland server crashes, it brings down your machine.
Re:Why is it all in the kernel? by __s on Wednesday August 05, 2026 @08:09AM (#49181705)
It doesn't, it just loses your session
Re:Why is it all in the kernel? by inigyou on Wednesday August 05, 2026 @08:28AM (#49181894)
A kernel panic doesn't bring down the CPU, nor the hard drive, or the RAM, or the power supply unit. So if we're being pedantic, the machine is still up.
Re:Why is it all in the kernel? by eru on Wednesday August 05, 2026 @09:31AM (#49182652)
Well, a kernel bug gets write access to everything. A bug in userland is a bit more constrained in what it can do.

That counts especially for accidental bugs and denial of service. To make a userland bug exploited adversarially not impact the rest of the system requires more hardening of the kernel.

Re:Why is it all in the kernel? by inigyou on Wednesday August 05, 2026 @10:22AM (#49183379)
Yeah a userland bug just gets all my passwords, SSH keys, personal secrets and whatever.

Say it with me - there's no practical difference.

Re:Why is it all in the kernel? by eru on Wednesday August 05, 2026 @10:29AM (#49183514)
You are talking about a single user system.

You can compartmentalise further.

Modern processors even give you these 'rings' to help with the hardware side of that, if you want to.

Re:Why is it all in the kernel? by inigyou on Wednesday August 05, 2026 @11:34AM (#49184368)
Yes, these are the standard excuses. But has anyone actually thought about them in the last twenty years, in the context of the way we actually use computers?
Re:Why is it all in the kernel? by eru on Wednesday August 05, 2026 @03:05PM (#49187454)
Eh, yes? Just look the discussions surrounding the development of any web browser? Or look at the permissions system in Android or iOS or on Mac (and perhaps even Windows?).
Re:Why is it all in the kernel? by inigyou on Wednesday August 05, 2026 @07:05PM (#49190270)
So you acknowledge a browser bug is just as bad as a kernel bug.
Re:Why is it all in the kernel? by eru on Thursday August 06, 2026 @08:38PM (#49204550)
A bug in the website itself is just as bad, if it's a website you care about.

They differ in how easy a fix is to develop and roll out, and what the blast radius is.

Re:Why is it all in the kernel? by yjftsjthsd-h on Thursday August 06, 2026 @01:58AM (#49192985)
No, that is true, even if not uniquely. A kernel bug can easily bring down the machine. Maybe Xorg can also manage it... although IMHO that also sounds like a kernel bug (surely it's the kernel's job to ensure no user program can do that?)... but that doesn't make the kernel safe. And I suspect it's easier to take down the machine from ring 0 than a display server even if both can do it.