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Re:Depp to Star as a Supercomputer in Christopher Nolan Film... by jere on Wednesday December 12, 2012 @02:00PM (#4911831)
I totally agree. Just hearing the name Kurzweil enrages me these days.

But! I think the singularity deserves to have a presence in fiction, even if it can't have one in reality. Some of the best sci-fi is built on whimsical and unrealistic technologies.

Re:Depp to Star as a Supercomputer in Christopher Nolan Film... by freyr on Wednesday December 12, 2012 @03:06PM (#4912141)
> even if it can't have one in reality

It doesn't have a presence in reality, it apparently won't have a presence in reality any time soon, but saying it can't happen is about as egotistical as we could be. Our generation has not yet discovered a means to synthesize this type of intelligence, but there is still plenty of time left to figure it out. We just don't know yet if it can happen or not.

Re:Depp to Star as a Supercomputer in Christopher Nolan Film... by jere on Wednesday December 12, 2012 @05:04PM (#4912732)
That's perfectly fine, but Kurzweil is putting some rather precise dates on these things happening and how they're going to happen. I actually think strong AI is probably inevitable, but I have no reason to think it's going to take 30 years instead of 3,000.

The credibility of the claims is somewhat diminished by the convenience. His argument is literally "I am going to be able to live just long enough to live forever and resurrect my dead father."

And assuming we did invent strong AI, so what? It doesn't necessarily or immediately lead to a singularity. We already have several billion human brains and have had them for quite some time.

Re:Depp to Star as a Supercomputer in Christopher Nolan Film... by ttesting on Wednesday December 12, 2012 @06:27PM (#4913109)
I can not rewrite my neurons at will or make a copy of myself to run in parallel. Does AI having those two traits lead to the singularity? I do not know it is to vaguely defined in this conversation, will it be bigger then the industrial revolution, I would bet yes.
Re:Depp to Star as a Supercomputer in Christopher Nolan Film... by jere on Wednesday December 12, 2012 @10:13PM (#4913945)
Actually you can do both. To an approximation, you can clone yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEVA0WbmfAA

You can rewrite your neurons too. It's called learning.

Here's a thought experiment though, more in the direction you meant. Imagine you had a tool that let you rewire your own neurons however you wanted. Again, so what? There are something like 100 trillion synapses in an adult brain. What are the chances that you'll use this tool to actually improve your own intelligence (when evolution has been playing that game for millions of years) vs just giving yourself a lobotomy?

Now, how is it any different in the hands of an artificial intelligence that is no more intelligent than us?

All of this futurism just seems like bad assumptions stacked on top of more bad assumptions. I still think Pinker said it best:

"There is not the slightest reason to believe in a coming singularity. The fact that you can visualize a future in your imagination is not evidence that it is likely or even possible. Look at domed cities, jet-pack commuting, underwater cities, mile-high buildings, and nuclear-powered automobiles—all staples of futuristic fantasies when I was a child that have never arrived. Sheer processing power is not a pixie dust that magically solves all your problems."

Re:Depp to Star as a Supercomputer in Christopher Nolan Film... by freyr on Thursday December 13, 2012 @10:43AM (#4916144)
"There is not the slightest reason to believe in a coming singularity ... Look at domed cities, jet-pack commuting, underwater cities, mile-high buildings, and nuclear-powered automobiles"

That seems like a pretty terrible analogy. All of those examples are possible today, but their cost doesn't justify their utility, and nobody pursues them. On the other hand, it's fairly easy to think of practical uses for artificial intelligence, and research in this area is actively pursued by researchers around the world.

Like I said, it would take someone incredibly egotistical (apparently such as a Harvard psychology professor) to suggest artificial intelligence isn't possible based on where we are right now, where we were 30 years ago, or where it appears we're headed over the next 30 years. Based on this quote, Pinker's conception of the world doesn't appear to extend beyond the span of his own lifetime.

"The fact that you can visualize a future in your imagination is not evidence that it is likely or even possible."

Nor is the fact that some of his childhood fantasies didn't come to fruition evidence that it's impossible or even unlikely. What's his point? One bad argument doesn't right another.

Re:Depp to Star as a Supercomputer in Christopher Nolan Film... by mcguire on Thursday December 13, 2012 @12:23PM (#4916795)
"Like I said, it would take someone incredibly egotistical [...] to suggest artificial intelligence isn't possible..."

There is a difference between a strong AI position and the statement that such an intelligence would be qualitatively different than currently operating, natural intelligence, and a further one between that and the statement that such an intelligence would be quantitatively better (whatever that means), which is the "singularity" as far as I can tell.

Re:Depp to Star as a Supercomputer in Christopher Nolan Film... by enraged_camel on Wednesday December 12, 2012 @04:52PM (#4912680)
Exactly. Claiming a singularity is impossible is like claiming there is no life elsewhere in the galaxy.

Only fools speak in absolute terms about unknowns.

Re:Depp to Star as a Supercomputer in Christopher Nolan Film... by mcguire on Thursday December 13, 2012 @12:14PM (#4916733)
Flying Spaghetti Monster for the win!
Re:Depp to Star as a Supercomputer in Christopher Nolan Film... by fusiongyro on Wednesday December 12, 2012 @05:30PM (#4912816)
It's exactly as egotistical as saying nothing can travel faster than light, with exactly the same ramifications.
Re:Depp to Star as a Supercomputer in Christopher Nolan Film... by finnw on Wednesday December 12, 2012 @06:06PM (#4912992)
> nothing can travel faster than light

That is a tautology (because the inverse is a paradox: If you prove something has travelled faster than light, that would invalidate the current definition of "faster.")

Re:Depp to Star as a Supercomputer in Christopher Nolan Film... by fusiongyro on Wednesday December 12, 2012 @06:09PM (#4913019)
That hasn't stopped FTL travel from being a mainstay of science fiction, which is my point.
Re:Depp to Star as a Supercomputer in Christopher Nolan Film... by e40 on Wednesday December 12, 2012 @05:50PM (#4912919)
The singularity was around before Kurzweil. Long before. He's a charlatan and has sullied the whole notion of the singularity. It bums me out every time I hear his name attached to the term.