All of your analogies fail because you ignore the fact that (a) most people are happy shoppers who genuinely enjoy buying much of what they buy, and who anticipate newer and better releases of games, movies, restaurants, and other products; and (b) most people could simply opt out, own nothing, and go live in the woods if they wanted to, but would strongly prefer not to.

You yourself are using an expensive phone or computer to type Hacker News comments, presumably not at gunpoint because you choose to do so. Which means you think it's better than the alternative that you're apparently glorifying.

People share a terrifyingly large amount of DNA with mice and apes and other creatures that can become hopelessly addicted to self-destructive behaviors. What is also interesting is the susceptibility of many people to believe really insane things. People join cults. People start cults. People do the cinnamon and tide pod challenges. People jump of bridges. People commit copycat suicide. People do lots immoral and stupid things when that's society's standards.

And no, I don't think that most people are "happy shoppers" but seem deeply disaffected about their lives, and shopping might be a compulsive behavior that helps them soothe underlying fears of dread.

The most insane belief that people currently possess is that we should all be miserable, despite living in what is undoubtedly the best, most prosperous, safest, healthiest, and most abundant age of all of human history. It's a cult, and its members don't even realize they're a part of it.

Was the world less prosperous, safe, healthy, and abundant in 2005? If you don't measure it in clock cycles per second?

Significantly so.

Oh, I agree. I don't think we should be miserable. We'd be a lot less miserable with less stuff and more friends. Less internet (probably), more music and hobbies. Yet here we are :)

Many of us aren't miserable, love our stuff, and love our music, friends, and hobbies! And I suspect many more would be in the same camp if they weren't being told so often that "everybody's miserable."

When people hear "the world sucks" enough times, they start think, "the world does suck", and easily enough that leads to "my life sucks". Hearing that the world is great can help have the opposite effect. But it's often derided as foolish or even insensitive not to dwell on the negative.

Name one person who enjoys renting shelter.

I loved renting for many years and highly preferred it to buying. As do many of my friends. Frequent topic of conversation.

Name one person who enjoys paying for a new roof and mowing the lawn.

Exactly. I'd like to live in a concrete box - *my* concrete box - but it's not allowed!

> (b) most people could simply opt out, own nothing, and go live in the woods if they wanted to, but would strongly prefer not to.

Almost every single person I know would rather do this, including myself, and can't. The woods are all private property, and unless we managed to hide somewhere, we would be removed by force.

Historically, (at least in my country, Scotland), people have been forced via economic and military coercion to migrate to the cities and adopt a lifestyle of employment and consumption, there's very little free choice going on.

Can you not join an intentional woodland community? What about moving to another country and living in the woods? If almost everybody you know would rather do this, it sounds like you've got quite the group. Why not pull together and make it happen?

I would be interested to hear of any in my nation that would have me, seems like quite an ask to allow a stranger to join your community when they bring little of value. That's not to mention whether it's legal or not, which I suspect it is not, planning laws are rather strict.

I do not believe I could move to another nation without employment or family relations legally.

We cannot pull together because even pooling all our resources, we could not afford to purchase the land nor the means of survival for ourselves and our families.

First, that's different to the previous suggestion and does nothing to disprove the previous suggestion being impossible. Second, how does that community avoid getting removed by force?