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Re:E-Mail Security in the Wake of Petraeus by mtgx on Friday November 23, 2012 @10:41AM (#4822511)
The issue is not whether or not FBI should be able to do something like this, but they should be following more strict procedures, and they should always need a warrant and "probably cause". It's pretty scary that the FBI can get all this information about someone just because there's a 10th degree relationship between someone they were following and you.

But this case was pretty horrible to begin with. It seems FBI was only doing this as a "favor" to someone, and it wasn't about finding evidence about Petraeus having an affair, that enemies could've exploited, because they weren't aware about this, and they only found it by mistake.

All I'm saying is that the Government having this kind of power doesn't represent the "land of the free" very well, that US is supposed to be, and it has a lot more in common with a dictatorship/totalitarian state than with a true democratic republic.

It seems to me that technology is making it irresistible for Governments all over the world, whether democratic or not, to want to spy on their citizens and know everything about them. The lure of absolute and all-knowing power is very tempting, the easier it gets with new technology.

If this doesn't become a real political issue, and is not stopped, I could easily envision how 30-40 years from now, when technology will make it possible for people to interact with technology through mind control, it will also be very easy technologically wise to see what people are thinking, and the Governments will no doubt want to easily access that, too.

There's already another scary trend starting to show-up - that of pre-crime recognition, although it's still in its very early stages. But imagine when we'll start to use quantum computers. Those computers could easily create all the needed statistics and possibilities to show how likely someone is to commit a crime in the near future, and I could see the government and law enforcement agencies wanting to use that. I think we've all read the reports of NYPD police raiding the OWS leaders a night before the protests were supposed to happen. This is not mere unlikely theory. It's already happening, just on a much smaller scale.

It would simply be irresistible to them at the time, just like they love being able to obtain all the data about you without a warrant right now, and they'd love if it they could do even more without a warrant, and are lobbying for these types of laws in Congress. The only way to stop these sort of trends is for people to take a stand, and vote for people who are against them.

Re:E-Mail Security in the Wake of Petraeus by sliverstorm on Friday November 23, 2012 @05:00PM (#4823812)
the Government having this kind of power doesn't represent the "land of the free" very well

An interesting thought springs to mind. Being free, and the government knowing what you are up to, are not inherently at odds. This is a good thing, as hiding things is only going to get more difficult as technology progresses. Rather than fighting to keep one's deeds (or misdeeds) secret, perhaps we should be fighting to make it such that it doesn't matter if the government knows?

Re:E-Mail Security in the Wake of Petraeus by beagle3 on Friday November 23, 2012 @07:48PM (#4824191)
The government is made of people. So just replace "government" with "other random people" in your thought above, and see if it makes sense to you.

To me, it IS "inherently at odds".

edit: to expand on this - information easily leaks from government employees who have been authorized to access it. Especially when it is so easy to get, and is so broad, then a private investigator is likely to find a government employee who would copy the files about person-of-interest-X in return for $1000, for almost every X.

For just one additional lookup a week, that employee can make an additional $50,000 tax free with negligible chance of getting caught (with today's nonexistent oversight) except if the resulting leak happens to become a news item.

So, realistically also replace "government" with "any willing person with $2000 to spare" (the private investigator will also take a cut :) )

Re:E-Mail Security in the Wake of Petraeus by knowaveragejoe on Friday November 23, 2012 @09:04PM (#4824311)
This. To me, Silverstorm's comment seems to be along the line of thinking of "If you've got nothing to hide, then why do you care what they know about you?"
Re:E-Mail Security in the Wake of Petraeus by sliverstorm on Friday November 23, 2012 @10:56PM (#4824486)
Sort of backwards from that. The counter argument to "If you've got nothing to hide..." usually revolves around the fact that you're always breaking laws, just because we have such a tangled legal system. So if you fix the legal system, then there's no cause for worry.

Yes, there's the privacy issue, but I'd bet that could be handled.

Re:E-Mail Security in the Wake of Petraeus by aidenn0 on Friday November 23, 2012 @11:48PM (#4824570)
No, the counter-argument to "If you've got nothing to hide" is that there are lots of perfectly legal things that you don't want other people to know. Maybe you're gay and you don't want your parents to know. Maybe you don't want your abusive ex-husband to know where you live. The more people that know a secret, the harder it is to keep.

Remember, the government doesn't know anything, people working for the government know things, and the more people that know a secret, the harder it is to keep.

Re:E-Mail Security in the Wake of Petraeus by sliverstorm on Saturday November 24, 2012 @12:04AM (#4824594)
Right, so that's the privacy part. It seems to me like that ought to be addressable- there's already plenty of people who become privy to private information for this or that reason, and it is very rare it becomes a problem.

Unless the system is significantly improved, yes, it probably entails some increased risk to your personal secrets. But to immediately shut down any suggestions of increasing government application of tech on those grounds seems short-sighted and selfish. There are positive outcomes, too! I'm not saying "forget about privacy, it doesn't matter", but rather "shouldn't we try to work a compromise?". Find a balance, where any increase in risk to personal privacy is counterbalanced by a respectable improvement in the capabilities of government to operate effectively. If we are stoic and immovable on the issue, we just impair our own government when we limit them to 20th century technology.

Re:E-Mail Security in the Wake of Petraeus by beagle3 on Saturday November 24, 2012 @09:37AM (#4825380)
The main fallacy of your argument is that you assume you can somehow prevent corruption by technical measures, when the only lesson you can take from history is that government corruption is a question of "when" and "how", not "if". And you're saying "it might be useful" without offering even a single example. (In general you need at least two example to generalize from, you know)

Could you actually give examples where more government knowledge is helpful? Strike "crime fighting" out, because e.g. London's MET police, and the FBI already have almost-all-knowing access to data, and all reports say it doesn't help at all.

In the 2nd half of the 20th century, Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union, are full of examples of why government knowledge of everything is bad.

Assume government knows everything you do, all is fine, and then one day, Hollywood gets a law that says you can't watch a DVD with friends (you each have to own an independent copy, so that they get paid). Bam, instant enforcement the next day, because the government knows everything. An almost-as-ridiculous law was almost passed (the recent ACTA treaty), and it's not a coincidence that demonstrations in Europe (especially former eastern block, who have actual experience with that) were far more numerous and vocal than in the US.

Re:E-Mail Security in the Wake of Petraeus by CodeMage on Friday November 23, 2012 @09:27PM (#4824349)
'Smith!' yelled a voice from the telescreen. '6079 Smith W.! Hands out of pockets in the cells!'
Re:E-Mail Security in the Wake of Petraeus by sliverstorm on Saturday November 24, 2012 @12:52AM (#4824655)
I guess you're right, that's really the only choice we have; the government we have today, or the government of 1984.
Re:E-Mail Security in the Wake of Petraeus by CodeMage on Saturday November 24, 2012 @06:45AM (#4825122)
I guess you're right, we should trust that the government of 1984 (or any other dystopia) would never come to pass if we relinquish our privacy.