> US deep state

Strange reading that on HN and realizing I'm not on Facebook

Its hard not to see that "deep state": group of elite politicians and super-rich, seize more and more power in American society.

Whatever you think about elite politicians and the super-rich, they’re not the “deep state”.

The whole idea of the deep state is that it’s part of the state, ie government, so not private citizens, and they’re “deep” ie hidden below the layers of government. Thats the exact opposite of politicians and the ultra rich.

Lol I'm pretty sure the "deep state" just means, "manipulating the levers of power from a place without accountablity/oversight" which covers both these shadowy hidden layers of govt you describe and the shadowy wealthy elites funding and lobbying for whatever. It can be both.

Sure, anything can mean whatever you want if you redefine anything to suit your whims at the time.

I agree with parent, that's not how right-wing propaganda portrays the deep state. It's a strawman, of unaccountable government bureacrats. It excludes billionaires and dark money in politics (the real problem), they put themselves on the good side. (Remember DOGE?)

term predates that right-wing propaganda

Nevertheless the parent is correct: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state#United_States

Your link refers to lots of different contexts,cherry picking one of them which you failed to cite to win your nit-picking argument is not productive, because it is just not agreeable.

Also, your link specifically starts with:

""a hybrid association of government elements and parts of top-level industry and finance that is effectively able to govern the United States without reference to the consent of the governed as expressed through the formal political process."

which exactly how this was defined by your opponent.

Snowden.

ah yes, the "deep state." The formless, nebulous, rhetorical tool that is always infinitely liquid enough to fit into or over any container necessary that the user can satisfy their immense personal problems disguised as eternal doomerism.

I thought it was just an overdramatic term for the unelected bureaucrats that make up the majority of the government, and who have their own institutional momentum.