12 year olds? My son was hammering nails into wood and drilling into masonry at 8. The Bedouin children are in the fields unsupervised with the goats at age 6. 12 year olds are not babies.

Both my daughters were skydiving at 9. Kids can do a lot.

>>My son was hammering nails into wood and drilling into masonry at 8

And was he doing that 8 hours a day, 5 days a week? Like you know...he would do at work? Or was it just a nice thing he did with his parents helping out with some construction projects you had going on?

>>12 year olds are not babies.

Of course not, but then again I have to ask the same question once more - if you were in charge of national policy, what kind of work program would you establish for 12 year olds that misbehave at school? What would you have them do, exactly?

  > And was he doing that 8 hours a day, 5 days a week? Like you know...he would do at work?

No, he was doing it for maybe a few hours at a time, no more. He demonstrated capability.

  > if you were in charge of national policy, what kind of work program would you establish for 12 year olds that misbehave at school?

I would not establish a work program for 12 year olds that misbehave at school. I would however ensure that there exist programs for 12 year olds who have proven that they can not function in the company of polite mannered society.

Ok, so answer the question then - what work program would there be for those 12 year olds that cannot function in the company of polite society. Like what kind of work would you have them do and how would you ensure compliance.

I don't have to answer the question because my goal is more the welfare of the remaining children in the school and less whatever happens to the bully. I really don't care what happens to them. Let their parents care. Let their parents find some solution. The more difficult that is, the better.

But someone has to answer. Saying "I really don't care what happens to them" is just such a lazy way out of this conversation. The whole problem is that we have to decide as a society what to do with them. You suggested work programs - great! Now give some examples of work programs you would put 12 years old in. If you can't or won't, then you have no more solution to this than someone who thinks having an idea equals having a business - it's precisely the execution that matters.

For instance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_service. 12 year old would be pretty fine to spend 4-5 hours a day cleaning streets for a while.

Btw. I am not advocating for work programs as a particularly good solution, expelling and letting the parents to figure out what to do with their misbehaving child is a good solution too. School is a privilege for smart children to study, not a prison for those who do not want to learn.

>> School is a privilege for smart children to study, not a prison for those who do not want to learn.

It's actually neither of those things, because we discovered hundreds of years ago that having an educated population is good for everyone. No, it's not a prison, but it's not a privilege either - you have to be in school until certain age. Work is not substitute for education.

[delayed]

Which is exactly why I advocate for not keeping them in the same classroom as other kids.

Most bullying happens outside the classroom.

I mean, we can repeat facts at each other, or we can carry on with the conversation in some more specific direction if you wish?

Have an educated population does not mean that every last uncivilized brat needs to participate. Especially if he is distracting other people from acquiring an education.

...how do you think we got to the literacy rates we have now?

And schools have been able to deal with "brats" for over a century without kicking them out of school.