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Re:Matt Mullenweg Overrules Core Committers; Puts Akismet on... by asdfasgasdgasdg on Sunday April 19, 2026 @11:51AM (#47825187)
Business objectives should override engineering policies when the two are in conflict, at least if you're a business owner who wants to make money.
Re:Matt Mullenweg Overrules Core Committers; Puts Akismet on... by kstrauser on Sunday April 19, 2026 @12:12PM (#47825354)
> Business objectives should override engineering policies when the two are in conflict

This is an excellent way to get stuck with only the engineers sucky enough to have to put up with that, which is not the norm.

However, in this specific case, it looks like engineers were making a product decision, not an engineering one, and management decided to make a different product decision. That feels categorically different than "mauve has more RAM".

Re:Matt Mullenweg Overrules Core Committers; Puts Akismet on... by stackghost on Sunday April 19, 2026 @11:55AM (#47825226)
>Business objectives should override engineering policies when the two are in conflict, at least if you're a business owner who wants to make money.

This bush league kind of attitude is why people insinuate that most software development is not "real engineering".

When Boeing or NASA lets making money get in the way of good engineering practice, people die.

Re:Matt Mullenweg Overrules Core Committers; Puts Akismet on... by mooreds on Sunday April 19, 2026 @12:05PM (#47825305)
> most software development is not "real engineering".

Most software development doesn't have anywhere near the real world impact of the Boeing/NASA engineering you reference.

Good engineering practice recognizes the risks and scales the effort to match it.

A CRUD app for internal users has a different set of requirements than a revenue generating SaaS app, just like a backyard fence has different building criteria than a highway bridge.

Re:Matt Mullenweg Overrules Core Committers; Puts Akismet on... by stackghost on Sunday April 19, 2026 @01:58PM (#47826202)
Sure, I understand the stakes are lower for blog plugins than for aircraft.

But being a professional means you do the thing even when the stakes are low. You don't decide to cut corners because you feel like it, or because it's more profitable. Mullenweg is not professional.

Re:Matt Mullenweg Overrules Core Committers; Puts Akismet on... by kelnos on Sunday April 19, 2026 @02:58PM (#47826671)
That's not what being a professional means at all.

You adjust your approach depending on the stakes. That shouldn't be a controversial take.

You're using "cutting corners" as a pejorative, but ultimately if the stakes are low, you may -- perfectly reasonably -- decide to allocate less time/resources to particular activities, and more to others. You can call that "cutting corners", and you'd be right, but there's nothing necessarily wrong about that: it depends on the circumstances. And there's certainly nothing "unprofessional" about it.

For the mostly-vibe-coded script to reencode a bunch of my own video files to save disk space, I skimmed the result to make sure that it wasn't going to overwrite or delete anything it shouldn't. Cutting corners? Absolutely. Perfectly fine and sufficient? Absolutely.

For the software that I write that I intend to distribute to others, that could cause data loss or other unpleasant problems for them if I get it wrong, I write the code myself, I understand how it works, and I might write tests and/or get someone else to review it, depending on my own judgment of what needs to be done.

Recognizing the difference between the the situations in the prior two paragraphs is what it means to be a professional.

Re:Matt Mullenweg Overrules Core Committers; Puts Akismet on... by stackghost on Sunday April 19, 2026 @04:52PM (#47827531)
>You adjust your approach depending on the stakes. That shouldn't be a controversial take.

At no time have I suggested that one cannot adjust one's approach. That's a straw man you invented.

I'm refuting the point that business considerations should always trump engineering considerations because profit.

Re:Matt Mullenweg Overrules Core Committers; Puts Akismet on... by kstrauser on Sunday April 19, 2026 @05:08PM (#47827663)
Sure, but in this case, the engineering consideration was whether a specific plugin should be added to the list of other suggested plugins. It was literally just a business decision of whether to configure it to be one of the featured options users might want to install.
Re:Matt Mullenweg Overrules Core Committers; Puts Akismet on... by asdfasgasdgasdg on Sunday April 19, 2026 @02:39PM (#47826530)
> But being a professional means you do the thing even when the stakes are low.

Not the way I understand "being a professional." All engineering, and all professions, entail the balancing of interests. There are some hard and fast rules*, like "don't do things that will kill your users." And there are some other things that are more guidelines than absolutes, such as "we don't ship feature changes in release candidates." Serious organizations understand that sometimes guidelines like the latter need to be violated for overriding business purposes.

*Even the "don't kill your users" thing is not an absolute. No car is perfectly safe, for example. We could add three more feet of crumple zone to the front and the back, but we don't, because even in safety tradeoffs have to be considered.

Re:Matt Mullenweg Overrules Core Committers; Puts Akismet on... by tomnipotent on Sunday April 19, 2026 @02:34PM (#47826489)
What does cutting corners have anything to do with the topic at hand? The situation isn't about devs getting the time to do something right, it's about programmers making a non-engineering decision that was overruled by the business in the businesses best interest. That's perfectly reasonable.
Re:Matt Mullenweg Overrules Core Committers; Puts Akismet on... by zephen on Sunday April 19, 2026 @02:22PM (#47826394)
> But being a professional means you do the thing even when the stakes are low.

Being a professional means that you adjust what things you do according to the stakes.

For example, in software dev, you usually have tests for the code. Do you have tests for the tests? No? Why not? Why aren't you doing "the thing?"

In chip development, I usually had tests for the tests, because the stakes were higher. But I didn't usually have tests for the tests for the tests.

Re:Matt Mullenweg Overrules Core Committers; Puts Akismet on... by brobinson on Sunday April 19, 2026 @12:10PM (#47825342)
"died in a blogging accident"
Re:Matt Mullenweg Overrules Core Committers; Puts Akismet on... by balamatom on Sunday April 19, 2026 @01:03PM (#47825751)
RIP American democracy, we hardly knew ye.
Re:Matt Mullenweg Overrules Core Committers; Puts Akismet on... by zephen on Sunday April 19, 2026 @10:06PM (#47829566)
Although humorous, this also leads to a provocatively interesting line of thought which is completely tangential to the engineering discussion.

Blogging accidents, usually involving tik-tok videos, selfie sticks, and rugged terrain or wild predators, get all the attention, but probably pale in comparison to medical or mental health issues faced by the average blogger.

For comparison, studies of police officers in the US have found that heart disease, cancer, and suicide are the leading causes of deaths.

Re:Matt Mullenweg Overrules Core Committers; Puts Akismet on... by brobinson on Wednesday April 22, 2026 @05:14PM (#47869380)
It was a reference to this: https://xkcd.com/369/
Re:Matt Mullenweg Overrules Core Committers; Puts Akismet on... by luckylion on Sunday April 19, 2026 @12:23PM (#47825443)
Business is wordpress.com, this is wordpress.org -- explicitly not part of Automattic but an "independent" open source project.

Obviously it isn't, but that's what Matt likes to pretend.

Re:Matt Mullenweg Overrules Core Committers; Puts Akismet on... by graemep on Sunday April 19, 2026 @02:03PM (#47826246)
This is something people seem to miss. His position as CEO of Automattic creates a huge conflict of interest with his position at the non-profit foundation.

This is an example: the foundation's code gives special treatment to an Automattic product.

Re:Matt Mullenweg Overrules Core Committers; Puts Akismet on... by kstrauser on Sunday April 19, 2026 @03:21PM (#47826849)
I don't think anyone but Matt is missing the significance of that.
Re:Matt Mullenweg Overrules Core Committers; Puts Akismet on... by graemep on Sunday April 19, 2026 @03:55PM (#47827137)
People do not know about it. Look at the current top rated comment on this post https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47824925
Re:Matt Mullenweg Overrules Core Committers; Puts Akismet on... by kstrauser on Sunday April 19, 2026 @05:06PM (#47827651)
I wrote that comment.
Re:Matt Mullenweg Overrules Core Committers; Puts Akismet on... by graemep on Monday April 20, 2026 @04:21AM (#47831586)
Oops, sorry, did not notice.

Were you aware of it and its relevance to this decision at the time you wrote the comment? My interpretation of your defence of it as just the CEO making a product decision was that you did not know. If you did know it seems to miss the point which is that he made a decision that was better for his company but worse for Wordpress.

It would be fine if Wordpress was developed by Automattic, but its not.

Re:Matt Mullenweg Overrules Core Committers; Puts Akismet on... by kstrauser on Monday April 20, 2026 @01:24PM (#47837615)
I was aware of it, but as an outsider, this actually seemed like a reasonable decision. Wordpress sites that allow external comments need some kind of comment moderation, lest they become instant spam cesspits. The CEO said hey, we're adding this section to feature suggested plugins, and we should add this long-time anti-spam plugin to it. In a vacuum, that looks fine to me. I'd rather see them emphasizing comment moderation than talking up a commercial add-on. Sure, this is a subscription they sell to businesses, so it's not a charitable work. It's one of the more defensible subscriptions I can think of, though.

And I really don't see it as worse for Wordpress. It's the kind of thing I think they should be recommending because it benefits the whole ecosystsem.

To be super clear, I am far, far from a Matt/Automattic (same thing) fanboy. I think this was a good decision in spite of my opinion of him, not because of it.

Re:Matt Mullenweg Overrules Core Committers; Puts Akismet on... by graemep on Tuesday April 21, 2026 @09:40AM (#47848689)
> The CEO said hey, we're adding this section to feature suggested plugins, and we should add this long-time anti-spam plugin to it. In a vacuum

The lead developer of a not for profit project said lets favour the anti-spam plugin that is provided by the company I am CEO of. Is that an entirely impartial decision?

> And I really don't see it as worse for Wordpress. It's the kind of thing I think they should be recommending because it benefits the whole ecosystsem.

All the Wordpress core committers apart from the two that work for Automattic disagree with you as far as I can tell.

Re:Matt Mullenweg Overrules Core Committers; Puts Akismet on... by Arnt on Monday April 20, 2026 @03:17AM (#47831265)
Some people have a view of open source contributors as some sort of amorphous mass of strangers, and that leads to unrealistic suppositions. The contributors aren't really amorphous, they exist, they're knowable, they have personalities and jobs.

A project such as wordpress(.org) depends very strongly on those who do the work. And in the case of Wordpress, that's some spare-time volunteers, some employees of other companies, but the biggest group is Automattic employees. If you do most of the work, as Automattic does, the project depends on you and you get to call the shots.

Re:Matt Mullenweg Overrules Core Committers; Puts Akismet on... by luckylion on Monday April 20, 2026 @11:35AM (#47835846)
I understand that point, but I disagree. Automattic controls the process, which keeps a lot of initiatives out because there's no reasonable expectation of improvement unless it aligns with Automattic.

I don't believe the project would fold were Automattic to quit -- there's a lot activity outside of the core that is alienated by Matt's behavior. Might well be an improvement if the focus of .org isn't about what .com needs, but about what .org wants to offer to users.