News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Continuous Deployment at IMVU: Doing the impossible fifty... by DannoHung on Tuesday February 10, 2009 @09:36AM (#475179)
I tell people that we should aim for this sort of automation and they pat me on the head and say, "No, no, that will never do."

I think there's an idea that if something goes wrong because you let an automated system do it, it's somehow much worse than if something goes wrong because there was human error. I don't really understand the reasoning.

Re:Continuous Deployment at IMVU: Doing the impossible fifty... by TimothyFitz on Tuesday February 10, 2009 @04:08PM (#475967)
Exactly. Drew Perttula put it better than I'll be able to: "IMHO, manual testing has only two advantages: it’s the easiest thing to [try to] do; and it has a lovely accountability chain. You can always blame the developer, and non-technical people will easily accept that this is the “inevitable cost of software engineering”."
Re:Continuous Deployment at IMVU: Doing the impossible fifty... by mst on Tuesday February 10, 2009 @05:14PM (#476092)
The thing I'd be really interested in is how you deal with UI changes - I've never found a satisfactory way to test "is this ugly/confusing" other than letting a few users bang on it on a staging server.
Re:Continuous Deployment at IMVU: Doing the impossible fifty... by TimothyFitz on Tuesday February 10, 2009 @07:34PM (#476262)
UI is an interesting problem.

The ultimate solution is to have business metrics drive your UI changes, usually in the form of an A/B test. Then you have a clear winner. This A/B would be run separate from the roll out structure (and indeed, we do LOTS of A/B tests).

Sometimes that's not possible, for a new feature or for content without a clear business metric to evaluate for. Either way we often have someone manually test new UI, so that we're not exposing users to something fundamentally broken. We usually do this by using the existing deploy system, but turning the frontend on only for QA users.

In the end, you do what works and is cheap, and that's usually something slightly different for every project.

Re:Continuous Deployment at IMVU: Doing the impossible fifty... by akronim on Wednesday February 11, 2009 @04:52AM (#476813)
There's a difference between automation and how often your customers see something going wrong. I'm all for the automation. But lets say the error rate is so low that just 0.1% of automated releases go wrong. Rolling out 50 times a day means you'll expose an error every 20 days. Compare that to a monthly, weekly or even daily cycle and you can see you're exposing yourself and your customers to problems without much corresponding gain.
Re:Continuous Deployment at IMVU: Doing the impossible fifty... by Retric on Wednesday February 11, 2009 @11:33AM (#477180)
If you're doing 10 releases a day and someone notices a bug then:

A) You can quickly fix it reducing the number of people that see that bug.

B) You can probably release the fix without breaking other things.

Is it better for you to release 5 bugs that 5% of your users sees for a few hours or release 1 bug that 100% of your users see for 2 weeks?