Ask HN: Going to College with NIL Family Support?

Posted by tokenadult on Thursday February 05, 2009 @07:37PM
from the ask-hn dept.

I see in quite a few HN threads an assumption, sometimes spoken and sometimes unspoken, that a young person pursuing an undergraduate degree will have financial support from parents. What about the young person who does not get any financial support (not even living at home rent-free) after age eighteen? What's the most reasonable plan for such a young person to launch a career as a hacker? Don't go to college at all? Go to a college with the lowest possible list price? Join the armed forces?

I hope to avoid my own children facing this situation, but I ask on behalf of a very bright young man who may face this situation. He has already received a very enviable offer of admission from a top high-tech college. He may not be able to afford to go. What are all the options?

( 10 comments | 7 points | on HN )

Re:Ask HN: Going to College with NIL Family Support? by rms on Thursday February 05, 2009 @07:49PM (#469096)

The income of his parents makes a big difference. If they are professional class, their incomes will make it so he doesn't qualify for financial aid. If they won't cosign loans, it puts said young person in a very tough situation. In this case, the young person needs to talk to the financial aid office and establish that he is entirely supporting himself. This can be very difficult. Right now, he should make sure that his parents aren't declaring him as a dependent on their taxes.

If his parents have lower incomes, then he should apply to a lot of colleges with hope of getting a good financial aid package. Generally, when you're paying for it yourself, it's not worth going to an expensive college, but computer science is special -- the education from CMU or MIT is worth the extra money. Owing 100k in student loans is a lot more manageable for a high end professional degree. If he was majoring in sociology, he would want to go to the school with the lowest sticker price.

He should definitely go to college and almost no one should join the armed forces, certainly not as a launching pad for a career as a hacker.

Also, this bill goes into effect this July and would allow for emancipated minors to file independently for financial aid. Assuming he is already 18, it is probably too late to take advantage of this. http://www.washingtonwatch.com/bills/show/110_HR_5.html

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Ask HN: Going to College with NIL Family Support? by tokenadult on Thursday February 05, 2009 @07:56PM (#469101)

If they are professional class, their incomes will make it so he doesn't qualify for financial aid. If they won't cosign loans, it puts said young person in a very tough situation.

Yes. That is the problem. The college financial aid principles in the United States

http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/highered/fa/Econo...

make an assumption that parents are the funding source of first resort for any young person pursuing an undergraduate degree at the usual age, and young people not supported by their own parents don't have enough creditworthiness to borrow their way through an elite undergraduate college.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Ask HN: Going to College with NIL Family Support? by ktom on Thursday February 05, 2009 @08:18PM (#469151)

I am not certain if the works in the United States, but you could divorce yourself from your parents.

Then their financial standing would no longer affect you, because they would no longer be legally considered your family.

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Re:Ask HN: Going to College with NIL Family Support? by tokenadult on Friday February 06, 2009 @10:55AM (#469862)

Here's an MIT statement from the director of financial aid:

"For MIT, our definition of an independent student is one where there are no parents to rely upon for information (in cases of deceased parents or abuse or neglect). The bar is set pretty high, so we do not generally allow students to be considered independant."

http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/finaid/financial_aid/its...

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Re:Ask HN: Going to College with NIL Family Support? by tokenadult on Thursday February 05, 2009 @10:17PM (#469287)

It's called being declared legally emancipated in the United States, but I think it is not easy to do.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Ask HN: Going to College with NIL Family Support? by saundby on Friday February 06, 2009 @02:22AM (#469492)

Scholarships, loans, and work is how I did it. The scholarships covered tuition, loans and earned income covered living, lab fees, and books. I lived in a small apartment complex and acted as an assistant manager in lieu of rent part of the time. I sold calligraphy (certificates, your name in calligraphy, mailboxes and street signs) and art (illuminated love poems/poison pen poems, decorated letterhead designs, wedding invitation designs) and did some studio portraiture photography. I also graded a billion papers, did odd jobs on and off campus--I.D. photos, repairs, hauling, cleanup, drafting home additions/remodels, writing short pieces for newspapers on events, selling cartoons to newsletter editors, stereo repairs, typewriter repairs.

I also got fed by friends in clubs (historical recreation group, astronomy club, computer club) when all I could afford for myself was a sack of potatoes (no margarine, just salt.) I checked out textbooks from multiple libraries to get through the quarter without buying (interlibrary loans make this work, along with reading ahead and study groups where you can get exercises from others during gaps.)

The loans were hard to swallow at the time, but I used the money carefully and it worked out.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Ask HN: Going to College with NIL Family Support? by bokonist on Thursday February 05, 2009 @08:08PM (#469123)

Plenty of schools offer generous academic scholarships ( Rice, Carnegie Mellon, Vanderbilt). If you shoot for a school a half tier lower than where you'd otherwise go, you can probably get a good scholarship. That's probably your best option.

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Re:Ask HN: Going to College with NIL Family Support? by tokenadult on Thursday February 05, 2009 @08:11PM (#469133)

You are referring to what is called a "merit scholarship." That takes off the table all the colleges that do not have such scholarships as a matter of policy. (So that means no chance at any of the eight Ivy League colleges, nor at Stanford nor at MIT.) But I agree that Rice, Carnegie Mellon, and Vanderbilt, among others, seem to offer some great learning opportunities. So certainly a young person who might otherwise get into, say, MIT should be sure to apply to one of those colleges as well.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Ask HN: Going to College with NIL Family Support? by chris11 on Thursday February 05, 2009 @10:35PM (#469307)

Actually the Ivy League might be an incredibly attractive option for him. Harvard states that for families whose parents make less than 60k, the family will be expected to pay nothing at all. And MIT seems to be very generous with financial aid too. They will make sure that all of the financial need is met. They define financial need to be expected expenses minus EFC. They cover the rest with an expectation that you will work some (earn 2850 a year) and then will cover the rest in grants. Most elite colleges seem to be making a serious effort to make sure every family can afford their college. Of course the problem is in the details. But it sounds like these schools would all be willing to make sure that he could afford college.

Harvard Financial Aid:http://www.fao.fas.harvard.edu/fact_sheet.htm

MIT Financial Aid:http://web.mit.edu/sfs/financial_aid/index.html

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Ask HN: Going to College with NIL Family Support? by tokenadult on Friday February 06, 2009 @12:20AM (#469403)

Agreed that Harvard (and Ivy League colleges in general) can offer great financial aid. But the offer is based on demonstrated need, or, as one old Harvard document said, "ability to pay, not willingness to pay." That's why a student whose parents don't agree to step up (the situation I am asking about) is hosed. Families with low incomes and assets, who apply, are likely to be bowled over by the generosity of the financial aid offer. See the Princeton online estimator

http://www.princeton.edu/admission/financialaid/estimator/

or Dartmouth's cost estimator

http://www.dartmouth.edu/apply/financialaid/calculator/index...

for examples. But please note that if the parents have some estimated family contribution above zero but are unwilling to pay that, the student is stuck. I'm asking about the plan B in such situations here, on behalf of a friend and similarly situated young people.

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