Re:AMD entered the CPU market with reverse-engineered Intel ...
by izacus on Wednesday December 24, 2025 @11:29AM
(#46376931)
I wonder if in 2025 a company would even allowed to start before being curb stomped by Intel's IP lawyers. After all, they started making clones, something that China gets accused of a lot.
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Re:AMD entered the CPU market with reverse-engineered Intel ...
by tiffanyh on Wednesday December 24, 2025 @11:46AM
(#46377090)
If the company was based in the EU, local regulation might encourage reverse-engineering.
See tangentially related topic from yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46362927
Re:AMD entered the CPU market with reverse-engineered Intel ...
by userbinator on Wednesday December 24, 2025 @04:39PM
(#46379531)
EU or RU.
Re:AMD entered the CPU market with reverse-engineered Intel ...
by jezek2 on Wednesday December 24, 2025 @12:26PM
(#46377419)
You can do it with HW accelerated emulation like Apple did with M1 CPUs. They implemented x86 compatible behavior in HW so the emulation has very good performance.
Another approach was Transmeta where the target ISA was microcoded, therefore done in "software".
Re:AMD entered the CPU market with reverse-engineered Intel ...
by izacus on Wednesday December 24, 2025 @03:47PM
(#46379066)
Apple didn't implement x86 ISA in hardware, they have a few instructions that change memory behaviour to make emulation faster.
Re:AMD entered the CPU market with reverse-engineered Intel ...
by BlueToth on Wednesday December 24, 2025 @12:53PM
(#46377643)
They said that they implemented x86 ISA memory handling instructions, that substantially sped up the emulation. I don't remember exactly which now, but they explained this all in a WWDC video about the emulation.
Re:AMD entered the CPU market with reverse-engineered Intel ...
by fweimer on Wednesday December 24, 2025 @02:15PM
(#46378319)
There's a Linux patch that exposes it via prctl: https://lore.kernel.org/all/20240410211652.16640-1-zayd_qums...
There's also the CFINV instruction (architectural, part of FEAT_FLAGM), which helps with emulating the x86-64 CMP instruction.
Re:AMD entered the CPU market with reverse-engineered Intel ...
by als0 on Wednesday December 24, 2025 @01:06PM
(#46377769)
Not instructions per se. Rosetta is a software based binary translator, and one of the most intensive parts about translating x86 to ARM is having to make sure all load/store instructions are strictly well ordered. To alleviate this pressure, Apple implemented the Total Store Ordering (TSO) feature in hardware, which makes sure that all ARM load and store instructions (transparently) follow the same memory ordering rules as x86.
Re:AMD entered the CPU market with reverse-engineered Intel ...
by nineteen999 on Wednesday December 24, 2025 @02:16PM
(#46378323)
It is funny to hear sometimes though:
"Apple created a chip which is not an X86! Its awesome! And the best thing about it is ... it does TSO does like an X86! Isn't that great?"
Re:AMD entered the CPU market with reverse-engineered Intel ...
by dontlaugh on Wednesday December 24, 2025 @03:42PM
(#46379033)
Only some of the time.
I think the last time I ran amd64 on my mac was months ago, a game.
Re:AMD entered the CPU market with reverse-engineered Intel ...
by phendrenad2 on Wednesday December 24, 2025 @12:33PM
(#46377468)
Maybe if you find a company as small as Intel was at the time.
Re:AMD entered the CPU market with reverse-engineered Intel ...
by BlueToth on Wednesday December 24, 2025 @12:50PM
(#46377617)
Intel customers required a second source supplier, i.e. IBM, thus, AMD was providing that for Intel in the beginning. Then later on AMD created the x86 64bit commands, which Intel adopted from AMD so now both share the same ISA.
Re:AMD entered the CPU market with reverse-engineered Intel ...
by izacus on Wednesday December 24, 2025 @03:48PM
(#46379075)
Can you explain what you tried so say with that?
Customer needs don't really matter in cases where monopolist (ab)uses the law to kill competition. That's the MAIN reason why monopolies are problematic.
Re:AMD entered the CPU market with reverse-engineered Intel ...
by debugnik on Wednesday December 24, 2025 @04:52PM
(#46379650)
The "required" in that sentence should be read strictly: some customers, mainly governmental, wouldn't have bought Intel chips in the first place without access to alternative suppliers (AMD and previously VIA). Intel had to give in.
Re:AMD entered the CPU market with reverse-engineered Intel ...
by sokoloff on Wednesday December 24, 2025 @04:53PM
(#46379659)
I read GP to mean that Intel had strong incentive to cooperate in order to make the initial sale. That’s where the customer need was relevant.
Re:AMD entered the CPU market with reverse-engineered Intel ...
by zenethian on Wednesday December 24, 2025 @04:59PM
(#46379728)
Neither company were like they are now back then. Intel needed a second supplier for their chips because nobody trusted manufacturing from a single source provider.
Re:AMD entered the CPU market with reverse-engineered Intel ...
by nineteen999 on Wednesday December 24, 2025 @07:34PM
(#46380931)
That wasn't the case. Their customers were the military. The second sourcing was required if they wanted DoD contracts.
Re:AMD entered the CPU market with reverse-engineered Intel ...
by nwallin on Thursday December 25, 2025 @12:44AM
(#46382389)
This article is not about that. This article is about the AMD Am9080, which was a unlicensed clone of the Intel 8080.
The licensing deals that legitimized AMD's unlicensed clones came later.