Re:Italian bears living near villages have evolved to be sma...
by attila-lendvai on Saturday December 20, 2025 @07:13PM
(#46340990)
same with russian fox fur breeders. i don't remember the numbers, but after a surprisingly small number of generations the foxes turned into cat-like pets.
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Re:Italian bears living near villages have evolved to be sma...
by pfdietz on Saturday December 20, 2025 @07:20PM
(#46341037)
Yes, that's a quite famous experiment, and still ongoing. Similar effects of "domestication syndrome" have recently been reported in wild urban foxes and raccoons.
Re:Italian bears living near villages have evolved to be sma...
by tokai on Saturday December 20, 2025 @08:30PM
(#46341408)
Remember reading something about humans themselves show the signs of domestication syndrome.
Re:Italian bears living near villages have evolved to be sma...
by nkrisc on Saturday December 20, 2025 @08:35PM
(#46341437)
Not in the literal sense (which would semantically impossible), but we have domesticated ourselves with the advent of farming and the domestication of crop plants. We fundamentally changed our own lifestyle into an agricultural one, the same we changed lifestyle of several large mammal species to co-exist with us in that agricultural lifestyle. So perhaps in some sense, maybe we actually did literally domesticated ourselves.
Re:Italian bears living near villages have evolved to be sma...
by antihipocrat on Saturday December 20, 2025 @09:29PM
(#46341694)
Wheat, barley and similar plant life have done pretty well for themselves, perhaps they domesticated us?
Re:Italian bears living near villages have evolved to be sma...
by lisper on Sunday December 21, 2025 @12:19AM
(#46342435)
A chicken is an egg’s way of making more eggs.
Re:Italian bears living near villages have evolved to be sma...
by mjanx123 on Sunday December 21, 2025 @12:52AM
(#46342576)
The markers of domestication in modern humans long predate the farming.
'Human' was the first animal available for domestication.
There is a distinction between the domestication as set of changes in the organism and the 'applied' domestication in farming.
In the applied sense, the humans on the top of the hierarchy do actually farm the humans below them.
Re:Italian bears living near villages have evolved to be sma...
by verisimi on Sunday December 21, 2025 @02:29AM
(#46342955)
> Not in the literal sense (which would semantically impossible)
Why is it impossible the humans are not domesticated? Are you making a point about language?
I think this is certainly true. People in cities, where there are high amounts of people around act differently when they are in a small village or in nature with fewer or no people around.
Re:Italian bears living near villages have evolved to be sma...
by BurningFrog on Saturday December 20, 2025 @11:38PM
(#46342293)
Executing murderers will change the population over a few centuries.
Re:Italian bears living near villages have evolved to be sma...
by startupsfail on Sunday December 21, 2025 @12:25AM
(#46342464)
Yes, executioners do proliferate this way. They tend to run out of murderers quickly though, then use any other excuses to execute.
Re:Italian bears living near villages have evolved to be sma...
by Earw0rm on Sunday December 21, 2025 @04:25AM
(#46343447)
Only if they haven't yet reproduced.
Re:Italian bears living near villages have evolved to be sma...
by pfdietz on Sunday December 21, 2025 @03:41PM
(#46348225)
I doubt it. The fraction of population that is murderers is quite small.
Re:Italian bears living near villages have evolved to be sma...
by BurningFrog on Sunday December 21, 2025 @05:01PM
(#46348998)
If so, you don't have to execute a lot of them to affect the murder rates!
Re:Italian bears living near villages have evolved to be sma...
by pfdietz on Monday December 22, 2025 @01:05AM
(#46351779)
The question wasn't changing the murder rate now, but changing "the population over a few centuries". If it doesn't change the population genetics significantly it won't do that.
Re:Italian bears living near villages have evolved to be sma...
by BurningFrog on Monday December 22, 2025 @01:44PM
(#46357261)
If 1% of men are potential murderers, and we execute 10% of them in each generation, it will have huge a impact on the murder rate over a few centuries, even though not a lot of people got executed, and the overall genetics of the population hasn't changed much.
Re:Italian bears living near villages have evolved to be sma...
by pfdietz on Monday December 22, 2025 @04:54PM
(#46359597)
Well, no, that presumes "murderosity" is due to rare genes concentrated in murderers, not unfortunate combinations of genes widely spread in the population. Experience with "disease genes" has been they mostly of the latter type, with each gene having a minor effect.
Re:Italian bears living near villages have evolved to be sma...
by BurningFrog on Monday December 22, 2025 @05:11PM
(#46359760)
The rate of the effect is probably unknowable. I think we agree that it exists.
Re:Italian bears living near villages have evolved to be sma...
by devilbunny on Sunday December 21, 2025 @07:41PM
(#46350153)
It is now. OTOH I have read that an estimated 1/4 of male chimpanzees die at the hands of other chimps (whether murder or war). So it’s not implausible.