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Re:Bag of words, have mercy on us by panarky on Monday December 08, 2025 @02:43AM (#46189522)
When someone says "AIs aren't really thinking" because AIs don't think like people do, what I hear is "Airplanes aren't really flying" because airplanes don't fly like birds do.
Re:Bag of words, have mercy on us by meheleventyone on Monday December 08, 2025 @03:42AM (#46189892)
This really shows how imprecise a term 'thinking' is here. In this sense any predictive probabilistic blackbox model could be termed 'thinking'. Particularly when juxtaposed against something as concrete as flight that we have modelled extremely accurately.
Re:Bag of words, have mercy on us by lostmsu on Monday December 08, 2025 @12:00PM (#46194711)
Yes, to a degree. A very low degree at that.
Re:Bag of words, have mercy on us by atomicthumbs on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @01:07AM (#46201788)
AIs think like a rock flies.
Re:Bag of words, have mercy on us by nkrisc on Monday December 08, 2025 @05:26AM (#46190670)
If I shake some dice in a cup are they thinking about what number they’ll reveal when I throw them?
Re:Bag of words, have mercy on us by danielbln on Monday December 08, 2025 @06:31AM (#46191086)
If I take a plane apart and throw all the parts off a cliff, will they achieve sustained flight?

If I throw some braincells into a cup alongside the dice, will they think about the outcome anymore than the dice alone?

Re:Bag of words, have mercy on us by shawabawa3 on Monday December 08, 2025 @06:25AM (#46191051)
that depends, if you explain the rules of the game you're playing and give the dice a goal to win the game, do they adjust the numbers they reveal according to the rules of the game?

If so, yes, they're thinking

Re:Bag of words, have mercy on us by nkrisc on Monday December 08, 2025 @07:24AM (#46191453)
The rules of the game are to reveal two independent numbers in the range [1,6].
Re:Bag of words, have mercy on us by brendoelfrendo on Monday December 08, 2025 @12:30PM (#46195074)
As someone who plays a lot of Dungeons and Dragons, it sure feels like the dice are thinking sometimes.
Re:Bag of words, have mercy on us by kortex on Monday December 08, 2025 @11:48AM (#46194521)
Re:Bag of words, have mercy on us by jibal on Monday December 08, 2025 @03:05PM (#46196927)
That's a fallacy of denial of the antecedent. You are inferring from the fact that airplanes really fly that AIs really think, but it's not a logically valid inference.
Re:Bag of words, have mercy on us by hackernewds on Monday December 08, 2025 @03:14PM (#46197044)
Yeah at that point, just arguing semantics
Re:Bag of words, have mercy on us by fc417fc802 on Monday December 08, 2025 @04:40PM (#46198011)
Observing a common (potential) failure mode is not equivalent to asserting a logical inference. It is only a fallacy if you "P, therefore C" which GP is not (at least to my eye) doing.
Re:Bag of words, have mercy on us by jibal on Tuesday December 16, 2025 @03:40PM (#46294118)
"Observing a common (potential) failure mode"

That's not what we have here.

"It is only a fallacy if you "P, therefore C" which GP is not (at least to my eye) doing."

Some people are willfully blind.

Re:Bag of words, have mercy on us by staticman2 on Tuesday December 09, 2025 @10:00AM (#46205633)
Whenever someone paraphrases a folksy aphorism about airplanes and birds or fish and submarines I suppose I'm meant to rebut with folksy aphorisms like:

"A.I. and humans are as different as chalk and cheese."

As aphorisms are a good way to think about this topic?