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Re:Racism at a gaming company by columbo on Tuesday October 02, 2012 @03:49PM (#4603883)
> WHO CARES?

It unnecessarily adds doubt to the claims being made. If your narrator has an agenda it becomes difficult to trust that narrator.

Re:Racism at a gaming company by intended on Tuesday October 02, 2012 @04:11PM (#4604003)
And right there is the classic holding pattern. 40 minutes into posting too, not bad.

The pattern is:

Apply standard of neutrality to poster, and find poster wanting - hence remain skeptical to keep an open mind.

"there could be a misunderstanding."

The promulgator and supporters are always people who are at best well meaning, but generally oblivious to privilege or its manifestations.

This will be pointed out, and the promulgator will point out how they have done X or are friends with Y in defence.

So first off - you aren't being targeted. The promulgator is acting rationally based on his experiences.

The best examples to counter this were an AMA from a guy who had a sex change operation. He then could clarify what Male privilege is, and how you would be completely oblivious to it until its gone.

It turns down as a woman a simple thing like walking down a road changes in a manner drastically different from what men are used to.

Similarly there was an AMA from a girl who used to look good, and then lost that advantage. All of a sudden she saw privileges she assumed were just normal things - disappear.

It turns out that men don't normally open doors for you, or are helpful.

Unfortunately when you react with outrage, most people have no idea what you are talking about and respond with:

"It unnecessarily adds doubt to the claims being made"

Re:Racism at a gaming company by shardling on Tuesday October 02, 2012 @05:17PM (#4604372)
My personal theory on why this particular POV always attracts folk is as follows:

• We see a stranger (call them the victim) on the internet making strong, negative claims against a set of people who are also strangers.

• We often only have the victim's word to judge these claims by.

• Therefore, there will often be debate about these words (which we can talk about with certainty) instead of the claims made (which we only know about second-hand.)

Starting from this perspective seems to lead to really, really degenerate conversation. It tends to be worst when talking about rape or sexual harassment charges.

(There's sometimes an additional weird layer where commenters think the original victim shouldn't make claims they can't prove to third parties, regardless of the truth of those claims.)

Re:Racism at a gaming company by intended on Wednesday October 03, 2012 @02:44AM (#4606159)
I see the same - its a terrible pattern and the only time it gets broken is on the extremely rare occasions when someone with experience AND ability to express the issue precisely shows up.

Other wise its always a death spiral at worst or a holding pattern on average.

I think yours is a larger general case - and I am trying to invoke perhaps a child case with the addition of privilege blindness.

What is tragic that this is a perfect example of good intentions that lead to terrible results.

Re:Racism at a gaming company by kevingadd on Tuesday October 02, 2012 @04:13PM (#4604020)
Of course he has an agenda! How could he NOT have an agenda if even HALF of the things in this post actually happened to him?
Re:Racism at a gaming company by strlen on Tuesday October 02, 2012 @05:10PM (#4604329)
> It unnecessarily adds doubt to the claims being made. If your narrator has an agenda it becomes difficult to trust that narrator.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(logic)

In brief, saying "X is wrong, because X subscribes to ideology I" is not a logically valid argument. Willing to hear X's argument and consider it on its own merits does not grant legitimacy to I.

The narrator's argument isn't "white people are colonizers, so...", he merely enumerates what he has experienced. That phrasing is unfortunate (but pales in comparison to being told far more offensive things _at work_) it doesn't detract from (or add to) his argument, i.e., it's an irrelevant detail.

Re:Racism at a gaming company by columbo on Tuesday October 02, 2012 @08:05PM (#4605087)
To be clear, I'm not dismissing his argument, I was simply answering the question "WHO CARES".

There's a time to vent and a time to make a case. I personally feel that the author would have been better served making a case (EEOC) instead of venting in a public method. Especially since the identities of the author and the company in question are very easy to track down. This could have long term negative consequences for the author, and may make his claim harder if he does decided to take his former employer to court.

YMMV.

Re:Racism at a gaming company by tptacek on Tuesday October 02, 2012 @03:51PM (#4603890)
You're saying you doubt this happened?
Re:Racism at a gaming company by sliverstorm on Tuesday October 02, 2012 @03:53PM (#4603911)
At the very least, the magnitude and gravity claimed become suspect.
Re:Racism at a gaming company by drivebyacct2 on Tuesday October 02, 2012 @03:54PM (#4603921)
Watch this video and tell me if you think that they're comfortable portraying themselves this way and wouldn't act the way discussed in this post?

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2012/08/...

Re:Racism at a gaming company by Apocryphon on Tuesday October 02, 2012 @06:37PM (#4604765)
And here I was thinking brogramming was just a total self-aware meme that went from pun to Twilio's joke presentation to media hysteria. Are you telling me this is a real subculture which exists in Silicon Valley now?
Re:Racism at a gaming company by davidw on Tuesday October 02, 2012 @04:33PM (#4604100)
Not at all. I hope he kicks their ass in court.

However, it detracts from the story compared to a straight telling, which would have focused 100% on the racist jerk.

IMO.

Re:Racism at a gaming company by crosvenir on Tuesday October 02, 2012 @04:07PM (#4603973)
Because I didn't see a better place to comment and I value your response:

When should it be considered acceptable for a victim to mimic their aggressor's behavior (especially when it is similar behavior that caused the victimization to begin with)?

Disclaimer: I'm trying to understand and not support to any of the GP comments.

Re:Racism at a gaming company by nollidge on Tuesday October 02, 2012 @04:59PM (#4604251)
EVERY narrator has an agenda. Personally I appreciate it when an author doesn't pretend to objectivity.