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Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by aliljet on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @11:19AM (#45968250)
Understanding precisely why Gemini 3 isn't front of the pack on SWE Bench is really what I was hoping to understand here. Especially for a blog post targeted at software developers...
Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by cube2222 on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @11:21AM (#45968280)
Yeah, they mention a benchmark I'm seeing the first time (Terminal-Bench 2.0) and are supposedly leading in, while for some reason SWE Bench is down from Sonnet 4.5.

Curious to see some third-party testing of this model. Currently it seems to primarily improve of "general non-coding and visual reasoning" primarily, based on the benchmarks.

Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by nico1207 on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @12:15PM (#45969128)
They are not even leading in Terminal-Bench... GPT 5.1-codex is better than Gemini 3 Pro
Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by svantana on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @11:27AM (#45968377)
SWEBench-Verified is probably benchmaxxed at this stage. Claude isn't even the top performer, that honor goes to Doubao [1].

Also, the confidence interval for a such a small dataset is about 3 percent points, so these differences could just be up to chance.

[1] https://www.swebench.com/

Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by usaar333 on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @12:39PM (#45969455)
claude 4.5 gets 82% on their own highly customized scaffolding. (parallel compute with a scoring function). That beats Doubao
Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by spookie on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @11:37AM (#45968552)
Does anyone trust benchmarks at this point? Genuine question. Isn't the scientific consensus that they are broken and poor evaluation tools?
Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by mudkipdev on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @11:55AM (#45968840)
I make my own automated benchmarks
Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by ummonk on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @01:43PM (#45970257)
Is there a tool / website that makes this process easy?
Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by mudkipdev on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @01:54PM (#45970390)
I coded it bun and openrouter(dot)ai. I have an array of benchmarks, each benchmark has a grader (for example, checking if it equals a certain string or grade the answer automatically using another LLM). Then I save all results to a file and render the percentage correct to a graph
Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by energy123 on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @01:05PM (#45969815)
They overly emphasize tasks with small context without noise and red herrings in the context.
Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by rkozik1989 on Wednesday November 19, 2025 @09:45AM (#45980175)
Honestly, I am inclined to think a lot of the people who are wowed by benchmarks and simple tech demos probably aren't doing very much at their day job and if they're either working on simple codebases or ones that don't have very many users(more users == more bugs found). When you throw these models at complex software projects like SOAs, big object-oriented codebases, etc. their output can be totally unusable.
Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by pawelduda on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @11:28AM (#45968388)
Why is this particular benchmark important?
Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by aliljet on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @11:31AM (#45968441)
Thus far, this is one of the best objective evaluations of real world software engineering...
Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by RamtinJ95 on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @12:07PM (#45969003)
I concur with the other commenters, 4.5 is a clear improvement over 4.
Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by adastra22 on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @11:49AM (#45968742)
Idk, Sonnet 4.5 score better than Sonnet 4.0 on that benchmark, but is markedly worse in my usage. The utility of the benchmark is fading as it is gamed.
Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by meowface on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @11:51AM (#45968779)
I think I and many others have found Sonnet 4.5 to generally be better than Sonnet 4 for coding.
Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by adastra22 on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @12:07PM (#45969004)
Maybe if you confirm to its expectations for how you use it. 4.5 is absolutely terrible for following directions, thinks it knows better than you, and will gaslight you until specifically called out on its mistake.

I have scripted prompts for long duration automated coding workflows of the fire and forget, issue description -> pull request variety. Sonnet 4 does better than you’d expect: it generates high quality mergable code about half the time. Sonnet 4.5 fails literally every time.

Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by pawelduda on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @01:08PM (#45969850)
I'm very happy with it TBH, it has some things that annoy me a little bit:

- slower compared to other models that will also do the job just fine (but excels at more complex tasks),

- it's very insistent on creating loads of .MD files with overly verbose documentation on what it just did (not really what I ask it to do),

- it actually deleted a file twice and went "oops, I accidentaly deleted the file, let me see if I can restore it!", I haven't seen this happen with any other agent. The task wasn't even remotely about removing anything

Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by adastra22 on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @01:16PM (#45969941)
The last point is how it usually fails in my testing, fwiw. It usually ends up borking something up, and rather than back out and fix it, it does a 'git restore' on the file - wiping out thousands of lines of unrelated, unstaged code. It then somehow thinks it can recover this code by looking in the git history (??).

And yes, I have hooks to disable 'git reset', 'git checkout', etc., and warn the model not to use these commands and why. So it writes them to a bash script and calls that to circumvent the hook, successfully shooting itself in the foot.

Sonnet 4.5 will not follow directions. Because of this, you can't prevent it like you could with earlier models from doing something that destroys the worktree state. For longer-running tasks the probability of it doing this at some point approaches 100%.

Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by ewoodrich on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @02:34PM (#45970918)
> The last point is how it usually fails in my testing, fwiw. It usually ends up borking something up, and rather than back out and fix it, it does a 'git restore' on the file - wiping out thousands of lines of unrelated, unstaged code. It then somehow thinks it can recover this code by looking in the git history (??).

Man I've had this exact thing happen recently with Sonnet 4.5 in Claude Code!

With Claude I asked it to try tweaking the font weight of a heading to put the finishing touches on a new page we were iterating on. Looked at it and said, "Never mind, undo that" and it nuked 45 minutes worth of work by running git restore.

It immediately realized it fucked up and started running all sorts of git commands and reading its own log trying to reverse what it did and then came back 5 minutes later saying "Welp I lost everything, do you want me to manually rebuild the entire page from our conversation history?

In my CLAUDE.md I have instructions to commit unstaged changes frequently but it often forgets and sure enough, it forgot this time too. I had it read its log and write a post-mortem of WTF led it to run dangerous git commands to remove one line of CSS and then used that to write more specific rules about using git in the project CLAUDE.md, and blocked it from running "git restore" at all.

We'll see if that did the trick but it was a good reminder that even "SOTA" models in 2025 can still go insane at the drop of a hat.

Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by adastra22 on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @06:17PM (#45973611)
The problem is that I'm trying to build workflows for generating sequences of good, high quality semantically grouped changes for pull requests. This requires having a bunch of unrelated changes existing in the work tree at the same time, doing dependency analysis on the sequence of commits, and then pulling out / staging just certain features at a time and committing those separately. It is sooo much easier to do this by explicitly avoiding the commit-every-2-seconds workaround and keeping things uncommitted in the work tree.

I have a custom checkpointing skill that I've written that it is usually good about using, making it easier to rewind state. But that requires a careful sequence of operations, and I haven't been able to get 4.5 to not go insane when it screws up.

As I said though, watch out for it learning that it can't run git restore, so it immediately jumps to Bash(echo "git restore" >file.sh && chmod +x file.sh && ./file.sh).

Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by meowface on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @02:02PM (#45970474)
I think this is probably just a matter of noise. That's not been my experience with Sonnet 4.5 too often.

Every model from every provider at every version I've used has intermingled brilliant perfect instruction-following and weird mistaken divergence.

Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by adastra22 on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @06:20PM (#45973629)
What do you mean by noise?

In this case I can't get 4.5 to follow directions. Neither can anyone else, aparantly. Search for "Sonnet 4.5 follow instructions" and you'll find plenty of examples. The current top 2:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ClaudeCode/comments/1nu1o17/45_47_5...

https://theagentarchitect.substack.com/p/claude-sonnet-4-pro...

Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by pertymcpert on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @11:53AM (#45968816)
I find 4.5 a much better model FWIW.
Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by epolanski on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @02:21PM (#45970728)
Not my experience at all, 4.5 is leagues ahead the previous models albeit not as good as Gemini 2.5.
Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by Workaccount2 on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @12:56PM (#45969713)
It doesn't matter, the real benchmark is taking the community temperature on the model after a few weeks of usage.
Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by epolanski on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @02:20PM (#45970719)
Imho Gemini 2.5 was by far the better model on non-trivial tasks.
Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by oezi on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @02:38PM (#45970971)
To this day, I still don't understand why Claude gets more acclaim for coding. Gemini 2.5 consistently outperformed Claude and ChatGPT mostly because of the much larger context.
Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by viraptor on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @03:26PM (#45971565)
Different styles of usage? I see Gemini praised for being able to feed the whole project and ask changes. Which is cool and all but... I never do that. Claude for me is better for specific modifications to specific parts of the app. There's a lot of context behind what's "better".
Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by Libidinalecon on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @06:10PM (#45973540)
I can't really explain why I have barely used Gemini.

I think it was just timing with the way models came out. This will be the first time I will have a Gemini subscription and nothing else. This will be the first time I really see what it can do fully.

Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by dist-epoch on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @05:15PM (#45972972)
Gemini 2.5 couldn't apply an edit to a file if it's life depended on it.

So unless you love copy/pasting code, Gemini 2.5 was useless for agentic coding.

Great for taking it's output and asking Sonnet to apply it though.

Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by artdigital on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @07:35PM (#45974294)
Claude doesn’t gaslight me, or flat out refuses to do something I ask it to because it believes it won’t work anyway. Gemini does

Gemini also randomly just reverts everything because of some small mistake it found, makes assumptions without checking if those are true (eg this lib absolutely HAS TO HAVE a login() method. If we get a compile error it’s my env setup fault)

It’s just not a pleasant model to work with

Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by khimaros on Wednesday November 19, 2025 @12:58PM (#45982606)
confirmed, but also happens occasionally with Claude
Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by nhumrich on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @07:47PM (#45974411)
The secret sauce isn't Claude the model, but Claude code the tool. Harness > model.
Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by brazukadev on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @07:49PM (#45974427)
The secret sauce is the MCP that lots of people are starting to talk bad about.
Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by WhyOhWhyQ on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @08:15PM (#45974658)
I'm not sure about this. I used gemini and claude for about 12 hours a day for a month and a half straight in an unhealthy programmer bender and claude was FAR superior. It was not really that close. Going to be interesting to test gemini 3 though.
Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by davidmurdoch on Wednesday November 19, 2025 @07:52AM (#45979006)
Gemini 2.5 is prone to apology loops, and often confuses its own thinking to user input, replying to itself. Chat GPT 5 likes to refuse tasks with "sorry I can't help with that". At least in VSCode's GitHub Copilot Agent mode. Claude hasn't screwed up like that for me.
Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by decide1000 on Wednesday November 19, 2025 @01:35AM (#45976503)
I use Gemini cli, Claude Code and Codex daily. If I present the same bug to all 3, Gemini often is the one missing a part of the solution or drawing the wrong conclusion. I am curious for G3.
Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by jarjoura on Wednesday November 19, 2025 @09:04PM (#45987968)
Gemini 2.5 and now 3 seem to continue their trend of being horrific in agentic tasks, but almost always impress me with the single first shot request.

Claude Sonnet is way better about following up and making continuous improvements during a long running session.

For some reason Gemini will hard freeze-up on the most random queries, and when it is able to successfully continue past the first call, it only keeps a weird summarized version of its previous run available to itself, even though it's in the payload. It's a weird model.

My take is that, it's world-class at one-shotting, and if a task benefits from that, absolutely use it.

Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by ramesh31 on Tuesday November 18, 2025 @01:53PM (#45970381)
>"It doesn't matter, the real benchmark is taking the community temperature on the model after a few weeks of usage."

Indeed. It's almost impossible to truly know a model before spending a few million tokens on a real world task. It will take a step-change level advancement at this point for me to trust anything but Claude right now.

Re:Gemini 3 for developers: New reasoning, agentic capabilities by ezekiel68 on Wednesday November 19, 2025 @02:47AM (#45976900)
I mean... it achieved 76.2% vs the leader (Claude Sonnet) at 77.2%.

That's a "loss" I can deal with.