There are plenty of us on HN who believe in the Israeli peoples’ human rights just as seriously as we support those of the children of Gaza, too.
Those of us who actually care about civilized society, human rights, and international law also consider that there are plenty of Israeli citizens who are, themselves, victims of their own states acts of terrorism as well.
You are responsible for the crimes of your state, citizen. No amount of chicken-waving is going to absolve you of that fact.
The point of discussing the heinous nature of the pager attack is to prevent the precedent set by that attack from taking further victims.
It is not in the interests of Israeli citizens to have their war-crime committing state subjugate their societies’ commercial institutions to commit further atrocities.
Because the Israeli Hasbara is now failing at this gaslighting strategy, you're leveling ad hominems towards people who see this as what it is - decades of war crimes and a humanitarian crisis.
So either come up with a proper argument, or stay quiet. Gaslighting us into thinking we're being biased, or that we're ill informed, just isn't going to work anymore.
Any and all means are and will always be justified to prevent that.
Only then will you have the moral altitude required to gain the support of the rest of the world in prosecuting “their” war criminals.
It is also a war crime to carry out what is known as the Nakba - ethnically cleansing and displacing hundreds and thousands of Palestinians. It is a crime illegally occupy land that does not belong to you. It is a crime to maintain an apartheid state. It is a crime to hold 'prisoners' without any charges It is a crime to rape said prisoners. It is also disgusting to have a society that riots when said rapists are called out for their actions. It is a crime to continually bomb and kill Palestinians for just existing. It is a crime to continually kill Palestinians for no reason via 'mowing the grass' exercises It is a crime to crime to kill Palestinians when they peacefully protest It is a crime to indiscriminately bomb Gaza because some Palestinians have had enough of being subjected to sub-human conditions.
So if you say 'any and all means are justified to prevent that', then any and all means should be justified to prevent the above, right?
Note by contrast that in most Arab Muslim countries in the Middle East, there is not just no large Jewish minority (as there was historically in all of those places). There are no Jews at all. Literally zero. They were ethnically cleansed. Expelled or murdered.
Israel does not occupy any land. In 1967, once again Israel's Arab Muslim neighbours aggressively and genocidally invaded. They once again were unsuccessful and lost territory. That territory has been part of Israel since then. It is no more "occupied" than western Poland is, which not too long ago was Germany, or western parts of Russia that recently were Poland. Land changes hands in the world, and after 1967 that land was lost.
Why when they aggressively invaded Israel should we care about their territorial claims for land they lost in the aftermath? Why is Israel the only country in the world expected to give up land it took decades ago?
Israel doesn't have apartheid. Everyone in the country has the same rights. Muslims are a minority. Obviously they don't get the same say as the Jews who are a majority. That's how every democratic state works.
The antisemitic and defamatory claims that Israel is deliberately killing Palestinian civilians is without basis.
War is a horrible and inherently immoral thing. We do no favors to our humanity or othercs by pretending it's a simple black and white matter when it is really not.
Ps humans are biased. Humans need to be able to have respectful discussions
Obviously yes, Hamas and Hezbollah indiscriminately firing rockets at Israel consistute war crimes. I assume you must agree that Israel's systematic targeting of schools, hospitals, mosques, and refugee camps would also qualify?
Nice work.
Even if that were the case, destroying those buildings with civilians inside is still a war crime
You're mixing two different things with the civilians in buildings. The mass building destruction we see is done on buildings after evacuation to dismantle booby trapped buildings. Israel does frequently do strikes on buildings or infrastructure that contain civilians, but that is a different kind of action with different reasons and circumstances (e.g. collateral damage of strikes on military targets, etc.)
You're someone that has deepthroated the Israeli narrative, with no critical thinking whatsoever. I hope, for your own sake, you start to see more of the reality, as defending a violent regime like this can have an impact on ones soul, which will affect - if not already - other areas of your life.
The mere existence of a state per se is violent, and given that both Israel and Palestine insists on having mutually incompatible states over the same territory, there is no other option but endless bloodshed until both sides commit to a conciliatory settlement. Until that day, a day which may never come, since everyone is hellbent on egging their respective favored side on, things will simply continue as is until one or both sides are destroyed. Since Israel unquestionably has more power, it will likely survive. There is no morally unquestionable option, but I think anyone who has a stake in the livelihood of Palestinians would be interested in stopping the conflict as soon as possible and making a settlement, even an imperfect one. In such a quandry, the only ethical option is to remain open and curious, be willing to look at facts and evaluate claims instead of jumping to conclusions, and refrain from asserting an uncertain narrative as fact when there are competing narratives and counterexamples.
There you go. Even when you want to hide it, you can't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcqIDKf1uYU
Your claim that buildings are being destroyed because they were "booby trapped" comes from a partisan source (the Israeli Government/IDF), which is an active participant in this conflict. Their claims are a liability limiting exercise and it's in their best interests do downplay destruction they have caused.
Statements from a government at war regarding their own military conduct are basically a PR exercise unless they have been independently verified. Plus independent verification is quite hard, as the same partisan source has prevented independent media from gaining access into the strip which stops independent verification of both side's claims.
Do you have independent sources for the booby trapping other than IDF or news organisations repeating their press releases? Basically anything from international NGOs / neutral observers that confirm that houses are booby trapped to such a scale that it necessitates the flattening of entire residential blocks?
While you say it's trivial to find a house with no damage, that was not my point. My point was from viewing the drone footage - that's view covers entire suburbs - there is not one single intact building in all 3 separate videos.
But since you mentioned "recently satellite imagery", lets look at the actual data provided by experts who analyse it.
The United Nations Satellite Centre (UNOSAT), released its Comprehensive Damage Assessment in late October 2025. So it's 3 weeks old. Completely fresh and up to date.
* It uses high-res imagery from as recent as 11 October 2025
* It tracks damage over time rather than just a before/after assessment
https://www.un.org/unispal/document/unosat-gaza-strip-damage...
Quoting the summary:
> According to satellite imagery analysis, as of 11 October 2025, approximately 81% of all structures in the Gaza Strip are damaged. Among the damaged structures, UNOSAT identified 123,464 destroyed structures, 17,116 severely damaged structures, 33,857 moderately damaged structures, and 23,836 possibly damaged structures for a total of 198,273 affected structures. Compared to the 8 July 2025 assessment, this corresponds to a 4% increase in total affected structures, and an 18% increase in destroyed structures, indicating worsening damage. An estimated 320,622 housing units have been damaged, 12% more than on 08 July 2025.
Their satellite analysis shows:
* 23,464 destroyed structures
* 17,116 severely damaged structures
* 33,857 moderately damaged structures
* 23,836 possibly damaged structures
* A total of 198,273 affected structures
It also shows the destruction of housing / infrastructure has been both systematic and continual over the past two years.
Having 81% of all structures damaged (and 320k housing units) puts extreme doubt to the claim that it is "just making it safe from booby traps".
Hamas members themselves have said they have trapped structures [1]. I don't think it is unreasonable that many buildings were trapped. There are also other causes of destruction, like bombing.
[1] https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/videos/international/ham...
Oh, and .. who are you referring to as “people living in the US”, and by what means are you certain of this fact? HN is an international community.
Some of us don’t see national identity and just want the mass murder of children to stop, whatever it takes.
Not on HN, not other places.
They all know best while living a world away from the region.