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Re:UK pauses intelligence-sharing with US on suspected drug ... by adriand on Wednesday November 12, 2025 @02:53PM (#45905454)
> why […] not comply with an airplane or boat that is clearly attempting to interdict?

They aren’t trying to interdict! They’re just killing people.

Re:UK pauses intelligence-sharing with US on suspected drug ... by dragonwriter on Wednesday November 12, 2025 @03:13PM (#45905807)
> First paragraph sums it up in a nutshell, but putting aside the violence, why would a fishing boat, or some other non-illegal-operations vessel, not comply with an airplane or boat that is clearly attempting to interdict?

For one thing, the US forces aren't even attempting to “interdict”, so the question has a false implicit premise.

Second, consider if it Venezuelan government vessels or aircraft attempting to “interdict” US vessels in US or international waters on the premise that they were suspected of running arms that might be used in Venezuela.

Re:UK pauses intelligence-sharing with US on suspected drug ... by ahmeneeroe-v2 on Wednesday November 12, 2025 @03:25PM (#45906013)
"What if they did that to us?"

We have a navy precisely because people have tried to do this to us and we decided we'd rather own the water.

Re:UK pauses intelligence-sharing with US on suspected drug ... by jacquesm on Wednesday November 12, 2025 @03:39PM (#45906297)
You don't. There is such a thing as Maritime Law and this completely flouts it, it is simply extrajudicial killing by an administration on a power trip. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. The USA will pay for this for decades to come.

Just for a second consider Canada bombing a US vessel that they suspect is running drugs.

Re:UK pauses intelligence-sharing with US on suspected drug ... by ahmeneeroe-v2 on Wednesday November 12, 2025 @05:22PM (#45907680)
Who will make us pay? And is that cost less or more than the cost of hundreds of thousands of opioid deaths?
Re:UK pauses intelligence-sharing with US on suspected drug ... by jacquesm on Wednesday November 12, 2025 @07:39PM (#45908989)
This is a weird attitude. Supply follows demand. Address the demand and the supply will disappear.

As for who will make you pay: the future. That's how it's always been.

Remeber how 9/11 was just a bunch of guys in a tent far away being pissed off at the USA and it caused you a national trauma that has pretty much set the country on a path of self destruction. Make no mistake: Bin Laden won the war, even if he got killed. And for peanuts. Right now the same is happening with Russia and the USA still has not learned its lesson: morality of action is important because otherwise there will be a reaction even if you can't image that the bill will be presented at some point.

As for my own country: we got stupendously lucky given all of the blood and the crimes this country is built on, not unlike the USA. But at least we refrain from giving the world the finger and pretending we're too big to fail (we're not). It really pays off to realize that the USA is not larger than the rest of the world and if you make enough enemies sooner or later they join up against you.

Re:UK pauses intelligence-sharing with US on suspected drug ... by ahmeneeroe-v2 on Thursday November 13, 2025 @11:45AM (#45917091)
>You can't just go and kill other people on the high seas without due process

You actually can. It's actually the standard way.

The rest of what you say is nonsense. The world pretended it was true in the post-WWII liberal world order, but it wasn't true then or now.

Re:UK pauses intelligence-sharing with US on suspected drug ... by dragonwriter on Wednesday November 12, 2025 @11:35PM (#45910667)
> Who will make us pay?

No one, directly.

Indirectly, undermining our own credibility when we try to foster a rule-based order that doesn't require constant resort to expensive (in both lives and treasure) applications of hard power, OTOH, will have a cost.

> And is that cost less or more than the cost of hundreds of thousands of opioid deaths?

It doesn't matter, because this campaign won't in any reasonable scenario prevent hundreds of thousands of opioid deaths, it will just add a bunch of deaths from international armed conflict on top of it.

Re:UK pauses intelligence-sharing with US on suspected drug ... by ahmeneeroe-v2 on Thursday November 13, 2025 @11:41AM (#45917033)
>credibility

Okay this cost seems worth it.

Re:UK pauses intelligence-sharing with US on suspected drug ... by dragonwriter on Wednesday November 12, 2025 @03:30PM (#45906119)
Yes, my point is that there is no principled justification for the behavior, it is simply unprincipled application of power and might makes right.
Re:UK pauses intelligence-sharing with US on suspected drug ... by ahmeneeroe-v2 on Wednesday November 12, 2025 @05:20PM (#45907652)
The principle is that of self-defense. Drugs have killed more Americans in recent years than did all of our 20th century military actions. We are right to use military force (and not judicial force) to meet this threat.
Re:UK pauses intelligence-sharing with US on suspected drug ... by pissmeself on Thursday November 13, 2025 @01:41PM (#45918731)
> Drugs have killed more Americans in recent years than did all of our 20th century military actions. We are right to use military forc

But will you kill the kikes that pushed that shit for decades?

Re:UK pauses intelligence-sharing with US on suspected drug ... by throwawayqqq11 on Wednesday November 12, 2025 @03:27PM (#45906060)
Maybe some day you might decide to just own UK intelligence.
Re:UK pauses intelligence-sharing with US on suspected drug ... by me_smith on Wednesday November 12, 2025 @02:57PM (#45905520)
Are they actually trying to stop them first?
Re:UK pauses intelligence-sharing with US on suspected drug ... by isr on Wednesday November 12, 2025 @03:06PM (#45905680)
Just off the top of my head:

- these boats are not in American waters. They are in their own, or neighbouring countries waters, and are being attacked by vessels whose home waters are 1000s of km's away

- they are not being interdicted (which is illegal kidnapping anyway, see above). They are just being killed. Plain and simple.

To put your argument back to you. Latin American countries who are combating narcotics trading armed paramilitarys, who are mostly getting their arms from US supply chains. So, for example, Mexico is entitled to go into US waters, and "interdict" American-owned boats with US citizens on board? Without any kind of warrant from even the Mexican courts, much less US courts?

Or, scratch that. Mexico just sinks them.

Should be ok, right?

Re:UK pauses intelligence-sharing with US on suspected drug ... by energy123 on Wednesday November 12, 2025 @03:38PM (#45906285)
Your worldview is built on top of the assumptions of liberalism: international law, sovereignty determined by institutions like the UN, etc.

The people who support this are not liberals when it comes to international affairs, even if they might be (but often are not) liberals at home. They know that they're violating international law. But they don't care because they do not value international law as it is currently constructed. They see it as an unjust imposition, made up by a bunch of lawyers and diplomats, that prevents them from securing their own interests.

Re:UK pauses intelligence-sharing with US on suspected drug ... by isr on Wednesday November 12, 2025 @03:46PM (#45906410)
I understand what you're saying. But, I don't have any "liberal assumptions". The Gaza Holocaust has demonstrated that there really is no such thing as international law, because there's no enforcement against certain parties, because they are deemed too powerful to touch (US empire, essentially).

Note, that's not the world I like to see. It's just the world we have.

But pointing out the outright hypocrisy of certain parties actions, vis a vis international law, natural law, or even "what if we flipped the tables?", is always worthwhile (I hope). Even if it's just shouting into the wind

Re:UK pauses intelligence-sharing with US on suspected drug ... by HeinzStuckeIt on Wednesday November 12, 2025 @03:59PM (#45906582)
> Gaza Holocaust

There was only one Holocaust, the Shoah. Even if the Gaza events qualified as a genocide, a label that can be applied to many such events throughout time and place, that is still not a Holocaust.

Re:UK pauses intelligence-sharing with US on suspected drug ... by aziaziazi on Friday November 14, 2025 @08:28AM (#45926516)
Well if you're going to argue with words, there was one Holocaust but many holocausts:

> Extensive destruction of a group of animals or (especially) people; a large-scale massacre or slaughter.

However it's discussed if "Holocaust" is a good term to describe the Shoah:

> This use of the term has been criticised because it appears to imply that there was a voluntary religious purpose behind the Nazi actions

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/holocaust

Re:UK pauses intelligence-sharing with US on suspected drug ... by energy123 on Wednesday November 12, 2025 @03:56PM (#45906540)
I mean it's not nearly comparable to the Holocaust either in means or scale or intent or cause or any other dimension, and I reject these rhetorical games that try to get something labelled a certain way to achieve a persuasion outcome.
Re:UK pauses intelligence-sharing with US on suspected drug ... by ahmeneeroe-v2 on Wednesday November 12, 2025 @05:24PM (#45907710)
Well stated.
Re:UK pauses intelligence-sharing with US on suspected drug ... by horisbrisby on Wednesday November 12, 2025 @05:47PM (#45907971)
The trouble for these people is that politics has not been openly this way since the cold war because the position is untenable. A group that gets its power by pushing the doomsday clock is ultimately dependent on some counter force putting seconds back.
Re:UK pauses intelligence-sharing with US on suspected drug ... by HeinzStuckeIt on Wednesday November 12, 2025 @03:24PM (#45905996)
It’s a frequently met claim right now that the USA killing foreigners that its president deems adversaries on their boats is something unprecedented and beyond the pale, lacking necessary authorization like criminal charges and trials or declaration of war. But one of the very first foreign actions the USA did as a nascent country, still very high on all the eighteenth-century concepts of rights that inspired the American Revolution and Constitution, was send a naval force to kill a bunch of Barbary pirates with charges filed, no trial, and no formal declaration of war by Congress.
Re:UK pauses intelligence-sharing with US on suspected drug ... by isr on Wednesday November 12, 2025 @03:37PM (#45906271)
Well, we're all aware that the term "gunboat diplomacy" has been in use for centuries.

The Barbary Wars was an interesting case of how multiple naval forces were engaging in piracy etc against each other. Barbary vessels in the Med. British against US shipping (that, and press ganging sailors, was one of the public reason for the 1812 war). And, funnily enough, American privateers doing exactly the same thing to the British colonial shipping in the Caribbean (piracy plus press ganging)

In this current scenario, the only real connection would be that the US are the pirates.

Re:UK pauses intelligence-sharing with US on suspected drug ... by zoklet-enjoyer on Wednesday November 12, 2025 @03:18PM (#45905909)
Imagine I'm off the coast of Washington and a Russian plane or ship tries to stop me. Why would I comply?
Re:UK pauses intelligence-sharing with US on suspected drug ... by ahmeneeroe-v2 on Wednesday November 12, 2025 @03:23PM (#45905976)
Yes! Absolutely yes! Comply and wait for friendlies to come to your aid.
Re:UK pauses intelligence-sharing with US on suspected drug ... by I_Am_Nous on Wednesday November 12, 2025 @05:32PM (#45907800)
If the threat is the Russian plane or ship will blow you to burning pieces if you don't, why wouldn't you? Proving a point that leaves you dead isn't usually the best course of action.
Re:UK pauses intelligence-sharing with US on suspected drug ... by zoklet-enjoyer on Thursday November 13, 2025 @09:17AM (#45915154)
Death might be preferable to a lifetime in a Russian prison.
Re:UK pauses intelligence-sharing with US on suspected drug ... by bestouff on Wednesday November 12, 2025 @03:00PM (#45905589)
Do you mean like the Latinos who should let ICE officers do their job peacefully ?