News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Android's sideloading limits are its most anti-consumer m... by gjsman-1000 on Monday October 13, 2025 @01:49PM (#45571271)
Name a single bazaar vendor that's still going more than 50 years in any of them. The bazaar as an institution remains, as it does today, but there's no permanence with a bazaar, just as open-source will never have a permanent victory without becoming a cathedral. Bazaars persist through constant replacement, churn, not victory.

Windows NT will be with us longer than systemd and flatpak.

Re:Android's sideloading limits are its most anti-consumer m... by nerdsniper on Monday October 13, 2025 @02:26PM (#45571721)
No I meant there are individual shops inside the bazaars that are still going under the same brand name for hundreds of years. The El-Fishawy Cafe inside Cairo's Khan el-Khalili bazaar has been operating under the same name since the 1700's[0]. Bakdash ice cream parlor inside Damacus' Al-Hamidiyah Souq was established in 1895.

For me, walking through an old Souq gives me a similar feeling of awe / mortality / insignificance as viewing a cathedral or looking from the Colorado ranch land up to the Rocky Mountains.

Also some cathedrals have remained "Catholic" since their raising, but there are a lot that have changed from Christian to Islamic to Protestant ... both the cathedral and the bazaar's physical buildings are still present from the same era and both are used for their original purpose (marketplace or worship). And both have delibly shaped their regions by being engines of culture, innovation, and power.

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El-Fishawy_Café

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakdash_(ice_cream_parlor)

Re:Android's sideloading limits are its most anti-consumer m... by PaulDavisThe1st on Monday October 13, 2025 @02:23PM (#45571684)
Windows NT is younger than Unix. I'd say the smart money is on the Unix-derived line of operating systems outliving Windows NT by a considerable amount.

However ... the domain of operating systems is subject to weird constraints, and so it's not really appropriate to make some of the observations one might make in other domains. Nevertheless, I thought the point was that we want things to improve via replacement (a "bazaar" model), rather than stand for all time. We don't actually want technology "cathedrals" at all, even if we do appreciate architectural ones.

Re:Android's sideloading limits are its most anti-consumer m... by ThrowawayR2 on Tuesday October 14, 2025 @01:04AM (#45576433)
> "I'd say the smart money is on the Unix-derived line of operating systems outliving Windows NT by a considerable amount."

Are you referring to the *BSDs? Linux isn't Unix derived. It's a re-implementation with no code traceable back to the original Unix or any of its descendants.

Aside from that, Windows has a revenue stream behind it that looks to continue indefinitely paying for its development and Linux has...? The half-digested carcass of Red Hat within IBM? Canonical?

Re:Android's sideloading limits are its most anti-consumer m... by PaulDavisThe1st on Tuesday October 14, 2025 @12:01PM (#45581655)
There are descendants of the Unix source code, and there are descendants of the Unix design. Linux is in the latter group.

Linux is the root OS of Android, which has a lot more revenue behind it than Red Hat or Canonical.

Re:Android's sideloading limits are its most anti-consumer m... by ThrowawayR2 on Tuesday October 14, 2025 @08:05PM (#45586472)
Android is shaped by Google solely for Google's own monetary gain, just as Windows is by Microsoft. Having to fall back to claiming Android as a win, failing to recognize that it's the same collar with the leash held by a different hand, underscores my point.
Re:Android's sideloading limits are its most anti-consumer m... by ta1243 on Wednesday October 15, 2025 @05:47AM (#45590092)
Microsoft of course is also a major player in Linux (via Azure). As is Amazon. Their companies depend on it.

It's no longer a bazzar where random university lecturers write and run entire subsystems between classes, but it is at least multiple companies contributing.

Re:Android's sideloading limits are its most anti-consumer m... by bigstrat2003 on Monday October 13, 2025 @02:26PM (#45571709)
Cathedrals change organizations too. You can't compare the longevity of a physical edifice (a cathedral) to an individual or organization (a bazaar vendor). They are different classes of things.