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Re:Free software hasn't won by baq on Monday October 13, 2025 @01:42AM (#45565033)
Desktop is still useful, but it doesn’t matter. Everything important to non-techies outside of work life is happening on the smartphone, which has had hardware attestation since forever.
Re:Free software hasn't won by gsf_emergency_4 on Monday October 13, 2025 @01:55AM (#45565098)
Those are vital points! Mobile is the battleground. No company now or ever working on classical hardware attestation will understand cryptographic engineering at a basic level..

Thus FOSS has plenty of time (decades to centuries) to learn from for-profit tech's mistakes

Re:Free software hasn't won by Imustaskforhelp on Monday October 13, 2025 @02:56AM (#45565504)
Mobile is the battleground but you are forgetting how damn easy it is on android (atleast right now before google's attestation) it is to install f-droid and then install open source.

People don't even do that. They don't even search for software on f-droid first and try the UI. Nope they go to play store and search software which is going to advocate for closed software because ads/review buying...

You really have to expect something from the general populus as well imo. Maybe they don't know about f-droid but people say to me its not about knowledge but rather caring, they don't care and I don't know wtf to say to that.

It's a very weird chicken and egg problem.

Re:Free software hasn't won by gsf_emergency_4 on Monday October 13, 2025 @03:20AM (#45565673)
Within the mobile space there are other possible Schwerpunkte and appstoretech is the most obvious one to work on. It's also one where superior technology could win out over feelings--> why NLNet wants to fund:

https://nlnet.nl/mobifree/eligibility/

>‘decentralized app stores’, a technology that uses the F-Droid app store architecture, for organizations or other entities that wish to distribute their apps to a select user population (e.g. employees), plus an app distribution system that makes it simple and cost-effective for developers to distribute their applications to multiple app stores.

For mixed approaches, I like to think about why Google et al haven't beaten Apple at the appstore game (outside China)

You mention chicken and egg which suggests that there's a 2-sided-market type of problem to try to solve here even if one isn't well-versed in marketing

Re:Free software hasn't won by Imustaskforhelp on Monday October 13, 2025 @03:51AM (#45565855)
When I mean the chicken and egg problem I mean this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45562286#45565446 and originally this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45565346

Basically that people expect a lot from open source yet they want it right now but nobody mentions anything about donating to them or they will donate to it once the software gets a lot of features but the software will only get it if you donate to them in the first place imo otherwise the whole situation would feel entitled.

There is no reason to expect good UI/UX from open source when at scale, the society doesn't fund open source with donations at all. They are severely underfunded but I don't know what people want from them. Nobody cares about it. Oof.

This is a chicken and egg problem that open source can get really good if people donate to the creators but they will only donate (I doubt that actually as well now) once it gets good but ... it will only get good once they donate.

Open source is stuck in this chicken and egg problem. I was thinking about how the creators of deltarune/ undertale if they were open source, I just checked and undertale has made 114 million $ in sales and its price is 10$ which might be worth it...

10$ isn't that bad and people still pirate it, I think this model can be decent for games which is why people don't open source games. Imagine the amount of money that could've lost if lets say undertale was open source. I am pretty damn sure that nobody would've donated 114 million $ to them if it was open source.

Just some thoughts. I have mixed opinion now. Its a chicken and egg problem and actively hurts the devs financially in the process as well and people don't want anything to do with open source aside from us people who already know about it. Like wtf. We are taking a cut for a ideology and uh I am just a bit speechless. Its messed up & my question is: can we change it? I genuinely didn't want to be pessimistic but I don't think that there is much of a way, is there? I want to find some hope to cling upon but I genuinely can't find any hope. Everyone I talk to is so down right pessimist or nihilist or doesn't care about open source for a fix that I feel like I am in the wrong for looking for ways to change and now I genuinely doubt if change is even possible.

Re:Free software hasn't won by gsf_emergency_4 on Monday October 13, 2025 @03:56AM (#45565880)
NLNet (backed by EU) is a society that also funds opensource dev by donations

https://nlnet.nl/donating/

They should get more wellknown

Judging by the lack of upvotes and nondisclosure of how much they get, my guess is that 99% of people have for some reason conflicted feelings about funding opensource even from taxes

Re:Free software hasn't won by Imustaskforhelp on Monday October 13, 2025 @04:08AM (#45565966)
I just want a organization that I can trust and share about to have maximum benefit to society for open source.

Now there are 2 ideas that I have: One, to raise more awareness about open source and how it has some gems. The best low hanging fruits of privacy for the world might be f-droid, signal (doesn't require any specific hardware as long as they have android) and grapheneos(depends if they have a pixel)

But that being said, I thought that if I share about open source and how it can be good but it requires your funding to fix the chicken and egg problem. People would feel convinced to donate.

I might say them to donate to nlnet. But I don't think many people would.

I don't think open source needs an evanglist or somebody telling somebody else to do something. I am deeply pessimistic about the state of open source in the sense that it's out of my control and my trust of human society is eroding day by day.

Literally nobody I talk to makes me feel like something can be done about this and I doubt it so much now. I was so much optimistic about its future but I am genuinely pessimistic now and the only reason I try to be hopeful is that I don't want hopelessness. I don't want to sit down and watch but fucking hell, the world sure damn well wants me to.

Re:Free software hasn't won by gsf_emergency_4 on Monday October 13, 2025 @06:38PM (#45574078)
In the past the material resources of opposing forces were evenly matched: french revolution happened because the state had tenacious control over arms. Today armies do sometimes side "with the people", but mostly to prevent the politicians from going too far.

Real revolutions today have to be quiet. Besides NLnet, which I personally find trustworthy, and to which anybody can try to apply for funding, there's also Linux and FreeBSD. Those are real techno revolutions, but I'm optimistic that they can be taken to the next level. (2% support)

Be the change you want to see in the world, like Gandhi says. It's simple, though not easy. Join NLnet, or contribute to F-droid, or work on reverse engineering advanced proprietary tech. Find and learn and think about how revolutionary tech orgs are run. Most important thing to learn: how they can survive on support from only 1% of humanity. Thinking like that, it's actually easier now than any point in history.

(In another sense 1% is already a sweet spot, see

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45572427

World domination is a bug not a feature. The Linux kernel is the revolution. Desktop Linux is not)