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Re:Bill Gates: Books I Read this Summer by BadassFractal on Saturday September 15, 2012 @11:16PM (#4528129)
Any thoughts on that Moonwalking With Einstein book? I'd love to improve information retention in my day to day life, especially in software. I'm not so much interested in remembering the to-do list as retaining broader concepts for long periods of time. I'm lucky enough to get to learn a ton of things every day, but my long term retention of them is terrible unless I spend considerable time applying these ideas in practice, which is often not practically possible. This leads to a lot of wasted time, it's as if I never even read the darn thing.

Often, and this is the sad part, I won't even bother reading something because I know I'll forget it almost immediately, unless I have a block of time available to dedicate to trying it out in practice.

For example, I'm really fond of the underpinnings of programming language design and compilers, and it's thousands over thousands of pages of information (most of it very interesting and useful to me), but I fail to retain the vast majority of the great info and need to continuously go back to the texts whenever I'm in doubt about something. There were a couple of valuable techniques recommended in Pragmatic Bookshelf's Pragmatic Thinking and Learning, such as "now pretend you have to teach this concept to your former self who knows nothing about this", which supposedly helps with retention and internalization into the brain's "web of known facts".

Is there anything like that in the book? Would it be of any help?

Re:Bill Gates: Books I Read this Summer by ga0bi on Sunday September 16, 2012 @04:27AM (#4528655)
Picked up the e-book a few hours ago and read this gem:

"Monotony collapses time; novelty unfolds it. If you spend your life sitting in a cubicle and passing papers, one day is bound to blend unmemorably into the next -- and disappear. That's why it's important to change routines regularly, and take vacations to exotic locales, and have as many new experiences as possible that can serve to anchor our memories. Creating new memories stretches out psychological time, and lengthens our perception of our lives."

Really struck me personally since it reminds me of my grandmother. She's in her 70s now and she has a daily routine that consists of eating, watching the news, playing Hearts, and hygiene duties. She's in really good health but it's obvious that she is getting mentally slower and her memory is fading.

Reason I mention this is because I picked up the book expecting it to be filled with scientific data and memory improvement techniques I've read about before. But instead, it has been a really enjoyable read filled with anecdotes and passages that made me stop and think about how I can improve my personal life (beyond improving memory).

It might not be the best book for what you're looking for specifically but just wanted to share my gains in case it interests anyone.

Re:Bill Gates: Books I Read this Summer by charlieflowers on Sunday September 16, 2012 @04:05AM (#4528631)
You should look into Anki and "Spaced Repetition."

The gist is that you submit a bunch of facts you want to remember to a computer program, and that program applies an algorithm to figure out when you are likely to be about to forget something. The program quizzes you just as you were about to forget (but before you do), and the act of responding to that quiz renews and strengthens the memory.

Powerful. I've been using it for myself and my 9 year old daughter, and it has been very effective. Many use it to build foreign language vocabulary, or memory of Chinese pictographs.

(Note: This is not the subject of the "Moonwalk with Einstein" book -- I mention it as an additional tool for helping with the memory goals you stated).

Some Links:

Anki: http://ankisrs.net/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaced_repetition

Article on Piotr Wozniak and Spaced Repetition: http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/magazine/16-05/ff_woznia...

Re:Bill Gates: Books I Read this Summer by dsrguru on Sunday September 16, 2012 @06:53PM (#4530667)
I'm really glad you brought up spaced repetition since spaced repetition and the techniques described in Moonwalking with Einstein happen to be two of the items on my relatively small list of the most amazing things humans are capable of that they neglected to teach me in kindergarten. I'm sure most people on HN are unfamiliar with both, so I'd like to give a brief overview of what they are and how they work.

The techniques described in Moonwalking with Einstein require serious time investment up front, but allow you to cultivate a memory that rivals that of people with savantism (who incidentally tend to use the same general techniques but do so naturally). Spaced repetition doesn't produce as amazing results but doesn't require initial time investment and is a far more efficient method of memorizing data than conventional approaches. The only downside to spaced repetition is that most software implementations of it require daily review and don't work optimally if you miss a day (recent versions of the proprietary SuperMemo, Piotr Wozniak's own software, are supposed to be much more forgiving), but you don't need to invest much time each day.

So how exactly do these two memory techniques work? Spaced repetition is predicated on the notion that the longer you wait before reviewing data, the longer that information will stick in your head. That is, as long as you are able to recall the data when you review it. If you wait too long, you'll completely forget the data. So there exists an optimal length of time to wait before reviewing a piece of data, and as with the American game show The Price is Right, you can approach that optimal value by increasing your estimate, but the moment your estimate exceeds that optimal value, it becomes less useful than all possible underestimates. The goal of spaced repetition systems (SRS), such as the software programs SuperMemo, Mnemosyne, and Anki, is to adapt to the user's mind and figure out this optimal interval to wait before showing a flash card again, as opposed to conventional flash card systems that review each card every day. Not only does spaced repetition greatly increase the value of each time you review a card by committing it further into your long term memory, but it also greatly decreases the number of flash cards you need to review each day.

The art of memory (aka method of loci), which is the technique described in Moonwalking with Einstein, works by taking advantage of the fact that our visual and spacial memory is far better than our memory for arbitrary facts. The gist of the technique is to convert data that you want to memorize into vivid images (the funnier or cruder the better) and arrange those images at discrete points in a predefined order along a spacial layout you know well (the layout is called a "memory palace", but it can be your home, school, office, neighborhood, favorite video game map, etc.). To recall the data, all you have to do is retrace your steps and remind yourself what each image means. Combining this technique with spaced repetition, you can commit thousands of pieces of data to a memory palace, wait a few hours to retrace your steps to recall the information, retrace your steps again the next day, then again a few days later, then again a week later, then a month later, etc. In this way, about two or three hours distributed over 5 or so weeks (maybe with one more review the next year) will let you memorize thousands of pieces of data permanently. The stuff you can do with your mind once you know more efficient memory techniques is truly amazing.

Re:Bill Gates: Books I Read this Summer by BadassFractal on Sunday September 16, 2012 @07:24PM (#4530736)
Thanks for the explanation, very useful!

Recommendations for what to do / read after checking out the book? It sounds like you've put some time and effort into this, so it'd be great if you could provide further recommendations.

Re:Bill Gates: Books I Read this Summer by dsrguru on Monday September 17, 2012 @02:27AM (#4531482)
To be honest, I know a lot more about spaced repetition than I do about creating memory palaces. My only exposure to the latter is from Foer's book, and while I've begun using my house as a memory palace to easily memorize short lists (15 or fewer items) [1], I haven't been ready yet to devote the time needed to memorize specific paths through hundreds of discrete locations in order to memorize longer things like speeches or several thousand Chinese characters. The best advice I could give you is read Foer's book first, and then you should know what elements of the art of memory you should pursue further. Oh, after you finish Moonwalking with Einstein, you'll probably want to start building memory palaces, and this post has a good suggestion for creating new ones: http://www.michaelcorayer.com/2011/03/31/resource-for-memory...

[1] Even without jumping into the amazing world of memory palaces, you can still take away a lot of little gems from the book, including seemingly obvious things that you probably never bothered to think of. For example, the author says, "Words that rhyme are much more memorable than words that don’t; concrete nouns are easier to remember than abstract nouns; dynamic images are more memorable than static images; alliteration aids memory. A striped skunk making a slam dunk is a stickier thought than a patterned mustelid engaging in athletic activity."

Re:Bill Gates: Books I Read this Summer by tayl0r on Monday September 17, 2012 @06:37AM (#4531947)
I'm having trouble figuring out what kinds of "vivid images" you would use for memorizing foreign language vocabulary words.

For example, I'm trying to learn German right now. It seems obvious that you would use images of the English translation in your memory palace, but then you would just have the problem of remembering the German word that each image signifies.

Or going the other way, from German to English, what images would you use in your memory palace to represent German words? How would you tie them back to English?

help?

Re:Bill Gates: Books I Read this Summer by dsrguru on Monday September 17, 2012 @11:27AM (#4532979)
Figuring out how to encode various classes of data into images is one of the more challenging aspects of the method of loci. Also, memorizing an associative array of data is less natural in the method of loci than memorizing ordered data since the way you recall the data is by tracing your steps through the memory palace in your mind. I guess you could place two images at each location, functioning sort of like a LISP alist (list of pairs where the first element in each pair represents a key and the second a value), but that still doesn't answer your question about how to create the images. Maybe go syllable by syllable? For example, if you wanted to remember that kochen is kitchen, you could visualize a macaw perched on the shoulder of Barbie's boyfriend while the latter flipped burgers on a toy grill. The "caw" sound in my dialect of English is identical to the "ko" in kochen, and Barbie's boyfriend Ken would be enough to trigger my memory of "-chen", so I'd be like "Right! This was illustrating that the German word kochen means to cook."

Spaced repetition lends itself a lot more naturally to memorizing foreign language vocabulary words than the method of loci, so you might want to use that approach instead. Within spaced repetition, you can also use vivid images as a sort of scaffolding to increase the odds you'll remember the word before the next review, and you can eventually let that image go once you start recalling it easily. The more connections you form to other thoughts, the more firmly a fact will be anchored in your mind, so you might as well use mental images if you can come up withthem, even in spaced repetition. James Heisig uses visual mnemonics to teach several thousand Chinese characters in Remembering the Kanji[1] (Chinese characters for use in Japanese) and Remembering the Hanzi[2] (Chinese characters for use in Chinese), and communities like AJATT[3] and Reviewing the Kanji[4] advocate combining Heisig's approach with spaced repetition.

[1] http://nirc.nanzan-u.ac.jp/publications/miscPublications/Rem...

[2] http://nirc.nanzan-u.ac.jp/publications/miscPublications/Rem...

[3] http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com

[4] http://kanji.koohii.com/

Re:Bill Gates: Books I Read this Summer by tayl0r on Monday September 17, 2012 @02:59PM (#4534224)
Thanks. So I was understanding it correctly then, it is difficult to use this type of memory method with foreign languages.

I will stick with spaced repetition =)

Re:Bill Gates: Books I Read this Summer by drbawb on Monday September 17, 2012 @01:23PM (#4533646)
I'm wondering if it might be easier for a language like Chinese or Japanese, perhaps, where the symbols and words are a bit more visually distinct.

That being said: doesn't Rosetta Stone use a technique that basically relates pictures to common words? I've never tried that program, and only looked at demos briefly, but I've heard great things about it.

Re:Bill Gates: Books I Read this Summer by gwern on Friday September 21, 2012 @02:34PM (#4555048)
> The only downside to spaced repetition is that most software implementations of it require daily review and don't work optimally if you miss a day

I don't think the efficiency penalty is that bad if you do it, say, every other day - I doubt the algorithms are precise down to the day.

Re:Bill Gates: Books I Read this Summer by crazypyro on Sunday September 16, 2012 @08:52PM (#4530915)
http://www.ted.com/talks/joshua_foer_feats_of_memory_anyone_... TED Talk on the 2nd method you were describing. (At least I think it's what you were describing)
Re:Bill Gates: Books I Read this Summer by dsrguru on Monday September 17, 2012 @02:15AM (#4531465)
Exactly! He's the author of Moonwalking with Einstein, the book Bill Gates raved about in the parent article.
Re:Bill Gates: Books I Read this Summer by crazypyro on Monday September 17, 2012 @08:43AM (#4532249)
Oh haha, I didn't realize he was the author. Watched that video just a few weeks ago.
Re:Bill Gates: Books I Read this Summer by dsrguru on Sunday September 16, 2012 @12:20AM (#4528221)
Yeah, the book starts by stating that everyone can have a photographic-like memory if they practice the right techniques, goes on to explain the history of the art of memory, and then intersperses detailed descriptions of the techniques with a fascinating autobiography. It's probably not the best tutorial, but it's a great starting point and also a really fun and fast read. At the very least, I can guarantee it will greatly change the way you look at what the human brain is capable of.
Re:Bill Gates: Books I Read this Summer by slantyyz on Sunday September 16, 2012 @02:20AM (#4528458)
Agree - this is an entertaining book. If you commute, the audio version is worth getting.

If you're looking for more detailed techniques, Harry Lorayne's books might be better.

Re:Bill Gates: Books I Read this Summer by citizenlow on Sunday September 16, 2012 @12:33AM (#4528242)
Foer's book pairs a solid survey of techniques to master memory with a great story about his own disciplined walk through the world of competitive recall. I think you will like it.

And yeah, within a free-ranging story well told, there are introductions to multiple techniques (some of them rooted in the ancient, like the “Method of Loci", and some of them interesting contemporary 'cheats') that you might want to try applying to your retention of dense texts. I totally recognize & share the difficulty you describe.

Recommended...give it a shot.

Re:Bill Gates: Books I Read this Summer by drbawb on Monday September 17, 2012 @01:27PM (#4533678)
I too, am interested in this.

From what I gather reading the synopsis and the relevant discussion here: I'm not so sure how useful it would be for me. At the very least: I think it'd be a challenging technique for me to pick up.

It sounds like it relies on having a good spatial memory, e.g: being able to hold "maps" in your head. I've always been terrible at that, just ask anyone from my D&D campaigns.

However I think I'll pick up a copy of the book; even if I can't apply the techniques it really piqued my interest.

Re:Bill Gates: Books I Read this Summer by ga0bi on Monday September 17, 2012 @03:38PM (#4534422)
I also have poor spatial memory (especially when it comes to navigating), but the book recommends using a place you're extremely comfortable with as your memory palace. I used the second house I grew up in for the first memory task (a to-do list). After a few times walking through the house and seeing the hilarious images I've placed in each room, not only do I remember the to-do list but I've enhanced my memory of my home. I can remember how the carpet felt, what the wall textures look like, and how it even smelled.

Best of luck to you; it's been really fun so far!

Re:Bill Gates: Books I Read this Summer by sandGorgon on Sunday September 16, 2012 @07:49AM (#4528986)
here is a comment that someone posted on Bill Gates' blog

We have a community of over 1,000 mnemonists-in-training at Mnemotechnics.org where you can learn the techniques from our forum and wiki for free...