Re:Standard Thermal: Energy Storage 500x Cheaper Than Batteries
by wrsh07 on Monday August 25, 2025 @12:00PM
(#45015278)
I just read Project Hail Mary which suggests a use of solar thermal energy and I thought "ha too bad solar PV is so cheap in the real world this would almost certainly never happen" and yet, solar thermal energy plus heat pumps does seem extremely simple and cheap for this company
Re:Standard Thermal: Energy Storage 500x Cheaper Than Batteries
by maxmcd on Monday August 25, 2025 @12:06PM
(#45015353)
Does this become much trickier because they're trying to heat to 600c?
Re:Standard Thermal: Energy Storage 500x Cheaper Than Batteries
by leiroigh on Monday August 25, 2025 @12:29PM
(#45015635)
Pumping heat from 300K to 900K is not a big gain over heating -- the entire thing is premised on using extremely cheap intermittent electricity during the summer, and your savings are capped at 30%.
Re:Standard Thermal: Energy Storage 500x Cheaper Than Batteries
by turtlebits on Monday August 25, 2025 @03:31PM
(#45017951)
Solar water heaters are expensive, complicated, fragile, and generally immobile.
Solar panels and heating elements are cheap, simple and easily replaceable.
Re:Standard Thermal: Energy Storage 500x Cheaper Than Batteries
by speleding on Monday August 25, 2025 @04:20PM
(#45018503)
A solar water heater is just a black box with a tube running through it. Many houses here have one, because they're much cheaper than PV panels to generate similar kW heat. But a sibling comment pointed out they want to go up to 900 °K, you can't do that with those, of course.
Re:Standard Thermal: Energy Storage 500x Cheaper Than Batteries
by ZeroGravitas on Tuesday August 26, 2025 @06:02AM
(#45024461)
I think in most places the economics have shifted to PV now.
Despite the simplicity of a solar water heater the even greater simplicity is often part of the argument for PV being better, but the higher grade of energy that you only optionally have to use for heat and relative price changes are the key driver
Re:Standard Thermal: Energy Storage 500x Cheaper Than Batteries
by ted_dunning on Monday August 25, 2025 @03:42PM
(#45018093)
Read the article. He is talking about 600C heat. There aren't any heat pumps that
a) give you significant gain when you already have ΔT that large (because 900K / 300K is a big ratio)
b) have a working fluid that avoids decomposition at 900K
Re:Standard Thermal: Energy Storage 500x Cheaper Than Batteries
by speleding on Monday August 25, 2025 @04:21PM
(#45018522)
Ah that explains it, thanks, I missed that.
Re:Standard Thermal: Energy Storage 500x Cheaper Than Batteries
by pfdietz on Tuesday August 26, 2025 @06:46AM
(#45024781)
In addition to being at 600 C, this scheme also crucially revolves around keeping capex as low as possible. Resistive heaters have lower capex than heat pumps. In a system with low numbers of charge/discharge cycles the efficiency drops in importance compared to capex.
However, if that's the case you would think that you can cut out the PV step as well and use direct heat from the sun to heat the dirt, by running water hoses though the dirt and through solar water heaters. Should be cheaper and more efficient than the sun -> PV -> heat coils cycle.