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Re:Equal Earth – Political Wall Map (2018) by rich_sasha on Sunday August 24, 2025 @03:23AM (#45002091)
I have always found it a bizarre idea that we allegedly judge a country's importance by it's size on a Mercator projection map. Does anyone really think Greenland is the most important place in the world? Europe is tiny, yet the kind of people to complain about it will also complain about the outsized importance of it. Africa, which is apparently a victim of such projectionism, is also placed in the middle because of where the arbitrary Greenwich meridian goes.
Re:Equal Earth – Political Wall Map (2018) by fph on Sunday August 24, 2025 @04:01AM (#45002297)
The Greenwich meridian is not actually 100% arbitrary. It is a convenient location that does not split into two any significant landmasses.
Re:Equal Earth – Political Wall Map (2018) by MrJohz on Sunday August 24, 2025 @04:28AM (#45002433)
It does split off part of Russia, I believe. The Florence meridian works slightly better for avoiding splitting any landmasses.

As I understand it, it's not the best location, it's just good enough and was very popular for historical reasons.

Re:Equal Earth – Political Wall Map (2018) by notahacker on Sunday August 24, 2025 @06:59AM (#45003197)
It's mostly a convenient location for a group based at the Royal Observatory, Greenwich to define...
Re:Equal Earth – Political Wall Map (2018) by mapmeld on Sunday August 24, 2025 @08:08AM (#45003613)
I don't think enough people talk about how lucky we are that the International Date Line can roughly follow a line of longitude 180 degrees from the Greenwich meridian. If you were on a planet with more land, or we could only draw it through the Atlantic or Australia, timezones would be a lot weirder.
Re:Equal Earth – Political Wall Map (2018) by thenoblesunfish on Sunday August 24, 2025 @03:37AM (#45002159)
Agreed - territorial area is only one measure of importance, and probably not a great one. What would be more useful on a wall, if we are interested in such things, are bubbles with size showing population, GDP, life expectancy, etc. (a la https://www.gapminder.org/tools/#$chart-type=bubbles&url=v2 ), arranged to preserve, as much as possible, country positions on the projection of your choosing.
Re:Equal Earth – Political Wall Map (2018) by PaulRobinson on Sunday August 24, 2025 @04:08AM (#45002325)
Nobody thinks Greenland is the most important place in the World - although as as a relevant political sidepoint, the US political administration is very clear they would like to take control of it for "reasons", so it clearly has something going for it.

However, ask yourself why the mercator projection was so popular for so long, and why resistance to other projections took so long to counter.

Maps are inherently political and about power. The lines drawn on a map indicate the concrete physical extent of abstract non-physical forces such as power, authority, and jurisdiction of law.

When groups of people went about the World for centuries (arguably millennia), stealing, torturing, kidnapping, enslaving, raping and murdering people to create new lines on maps of their authority and law, it's fair to say where those lines are drawn is important, and when those same people decide to teach these events in a very sanitised way using maps that make their own countries look far bigger than they are, it's reasonable to ask what is going on.

But we can put that aside for the snowflakes who get upset about discussion of historical events related to European and American empire building (and I say this as a white, middle-aged, British man).

In plain terms: it's sometimes useful to have an accurately sized map if you want to compare by eye the size of say the Falklands (or Malvinas, if you prefer), with Malta or Jamaica, and not get a false sense of relative size just because of how somebody decided to draw the map without caring about accurate sizing. This is useful in a wide range of educational settings relating to geography (a physical, non-political version is available for download), history, politics (versions with Palestine and Israel labelled or not labelled are available), and even economics.

It's just a fact that maps that are accurate to land-mass size like this are more useful for some purposes than those that aren't, and doing so for a large ball onto a 2D surface is hard, and a worthwhile pursuit for lots of end use cases, for reasons that are well documented in a variety of forms to suit your taste if you're curious.

The "kinds of people to complain about" the mercator projection therefore can be people who just want a more accurately sized map. What's your problem with them? Why are you so against them wanting another map projection? They aren't taking your preferred inaccurately sized map away, they're just creating a new one fit for their purposes, and you're the one complaining about it. As such, I actually think you're the one who needs to explain your thinking here. It's your thinking that I would argue is bizarre.

Perhaps you also missed the fact that different meridian options are available well away from the Greenwich meridian, and there's even a "South to the top" projection available. Perhaps you think those people who would appreciate such a map for purposes you can't imagine, aren't entitled to it, even though them having that costs you exactly nothing? It's an odd notion, far odder than the notion of wanting such things for all sorts of reasons.

Re:Equal Earth – Political Wall Map (2018) by luckylion on Sunday August 24, 2025 @04:38AM (#45002489)
> However, ask yourself why the mercator projection was so popular for so long, and why resistance to other projections took so long to counter.

Wasn't that primarily because of sea trade and the mercator projection being very useful for that because you can draw a straight line on it and then set a straight course?

Re:Equal Earth – Political Wall Map (2018) by littlestymaar on Sunday August 24, 2025 @06:10AM (#45002957)
As I said in another comment[1] this is only true at small scale. As soon as you start crossing oceans, you absolutely do not want to navigate in straight line as it's going to inflate your travel by a significant amount of distance.

As such, while the Mercator projection makes total sense for a map of northern Europe or the Caribbean, it makes absolutely no sense as a map of the entire world.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45002873

Re:Equal Earth – Political Wall Map (2018) by luckylion on Sunday August 24, 2025 @06:37AM (#45003074)
Did they have better map projections for cross-oceanic navigation 500 years ago when the mercator projection was invented?
Re:Equal Earth – Political Wall Map (2018) by littlestymaar on Sunday August 24, 2025 @10:14AM (#45004395)
AFAIK you'd need a projection for each origin/destination pair, so it's not exactly convenient. A globe is by far the best tool for such a job.
Re:Equal Earth – Political Wall Map (2018) by luckylion on Sunday August 24, 2025 @04:04PM (#45007289)
But globes aren't really that practical for navigation. You can plan your voyage, but when you're at sea, how do you make sure you're going in the right direction? Mercator has the advantage that you can use your compass and as long as you stay on course, you'll arrive at your destination.

Keep in mind: that's 500 years ago, not 50 years ago. There's no question that we have better tools today but the question was why the mercator projection was so successful it became the default. I think "it was super useful at the time because it made navigation easy, reliable, and available to everyone, at any any weather" is a much more compelling explanation than "the would-be colonizers spread it because their home-countries were enlarged and they liked that and used it to oppress the equatorial countries".

Re:Equal Earth – Political Wall Map (2018) by littlestymaar on Monday August 25, 2025 @07:50AM (#45012835)
> But globes aren't really that practical for navigation. You can plan your voyage, but when you're at sea, how do you make sure you're going in the right direction?

With a compass, a sextant, a clock, and geometric calculations to get the intermediate points you'll then use a straight course to rally these point. The Mercator projection just inverse the order of the calculations (going from the intermediate points to course is straightforward as you just go in straight line over the Mercator projection), but deriving the said points requires calculations. If you have a globe, it's the other way around.

> is a much more compelling explanation than "the would-be colonizers spread it because their home-countries were enlarged and they liked that and used it to oppress the equatorial countries".

This is a strawman though, nobody serious would claim it has been designed for that reason. The fact is that it distorted the view of peoples in a way that aligned situ colonists propaganda at home. But those claims aren't at all equivalent.

Re:Equal Earth – Political Wall Map (2018) by bazoom42 on Sunday August 24, 2025 @04:44AM (#45002539)
> ask yourself why the mercator projection was so popular for so long

Besause maps was developed as tools for navigation.

But if you want an idea of the relative sizes and positions of the countries of the world, you should use a globe.

Regarding colonization, I’d note that Greenland, Canada and Siberia wasn’t the greatest colonizers. The conspiracy theory about Marcator justifying colonization does not really make sense. Norway, Iceland and Greenland gets a much bigger size boost than Spain, France and UK. But Greenland was colonized, not a colonizer.

Re:Equal Earth – Political Wall Map (2018) by littlestymaar on Sunday August 24, 2025 @05:51AM (#45002873)
> Besause maps was developed as tools for navigation.

It's not perfect for navigation either, especially over long distance if you want to navigate from Europe to the US, going in straight line over a Mercator projection is going to make your trip much longer than it ought to be. So while it makes sense for smaller-scale maps because the angles are preserved, it's totally pointless for a world map.

As an example compare this to the straigh line between Edinburgh and Miami in mercator projection: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=edinburgh+miami

Re:Equal Earth – Political Wall Map (2018) by francisdavey on Sunday August 24, 2025 @04:56AM (#45002588)
Is it popular though? When I studied Geography at school, we had a standard school atlas that was used by a huge number of schools throughout the country and across several generations. It had maps on essentially every page - of course. Only one was Mercator: showing time zones. That's it.

Growing up, I did not see Mercator at all often.

Re:Equal Earth – Political Wall Map (2018) by varenc on Sunday August 24, 2025 @05:20AM (#45002728)
In my childhood I definitely thought Greenland was a much physically large place than it is, because of the mercator world map the hung on the wall in home room. Was dumbfounded when I learned it actually fits within the continental US.
Re:Equal Earth – Political Wall Map (2018) by thinkingemote on Sunday August 24, 2025 @05:52AM (#45002876)
Ironically it's by looking at a globe rather than even a map like this that Greenlands worth becomes more visible. We need to centre the globe on Greenland and see what it tells us.

Greenland has at least two reasons to be worth more then it is now: in the future when the north polar ice sheet melts. The arctic circle becomes a navigable ocean. It's a short way from USA and Europe to Asia (or Russia).

Secondly removing the ice means it's much easier to get the essential hydrocarbons underneath of which there are lots of and which many countries will want.

So the reasons for Greenland is geography, security, control, trade and economy. And by thinking long term. It can also explain some off handed and mocked comments about Canada too.

Re:Equal Earth – Political Wall Map (2018) by notahacker on Sunday August 24, 2025 @07:16AM (#45003309)
Also notable that in the centuries following Mercator projection, Africa, the Indian subcontinent and the northern parts of South America actually shrunk by the map were regarded as vast, unexplored wildernesses full of resources to plunder (and the northern realms expanded by the projection as inaccessible icy wasteland). Difficult to imagine the Gall-Peters projection making conquistadors and colonists from little European countries more respectful of the inhabitants of the equatorial realms, though I guess they might have got lost more using it...
Re:Equal Earth – Political Wall Map (2018) by rsynnott on Sunday August 24, 2025 @03:17PM (#45006856)
> Does anyone really think Greenland is the most important place in the world?

Well, no-one sensible. However.

"I love maps. And I always said: 'Look at the size of this. It's massive. That should be part of the United States.'"

That’s noted very stable genius Donald Trump, there, on the enormity of Greenland, and why it would therefore be something which it is sensible to somehow try to buy.

Re:Equal Earth – Political Wall Map (2018) by rayiner on Sunday August 24, 2025 @08:53PM (#45009198)
> I have always found it a bizarre idea that we allegedly judge a country's importance by it's size on a Mercator projection map

I don’t think anyone thinks this, because it is bizarre. It’s just that at some point we stigmatized calling out stupid ideas as long as someone is purporting to speak on behalf of non-Europeans.

Re:Equal Earth – Political Wall Map (2018) by atoav on Monday August 25, 2025 @05:47AM (#45012072)
Doesn't bringing up the topic of different projections still act as a good reminder that maps of spherical planets will always have one issue or another?

Graphical representations of things have an impact on preception and then by proxy on thinking. Maintaining aome degree of general awareness of these impacts leads to better thinking that is more reflective of the ground truth.

Some would call that "woke" with bad intentions, but hey, they got an agenda and that agaenda doesn't care about facts.