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Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by DiabloD3 on Tuesday August 19, 2025 @11:02PM (#44958280)
We already have this though. SD Express, which allows SD cards to actually protocol switch to one lane PCI-E NVME. It's been part of the spec officially since 2018, and an enhancement slightly later to add more pins to allow a second lane.

And since, underneath, it becomes a standard PCI-E NVME with standard lanes, there is no inherent speed limit from the bus itself, only from the fact that SD cards are tiny and any real controller is going to cook.

Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by seabrookmx on Tuesday August 19, 2025 @11:06PM (#44958296)
Worth mentioning that the Nintendo Switch 2 supports SD Express, so in a few years millions of households will have these cards laying around.
Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by echelon on Tuesday August 19, 2025 @11:54PM (#44958502)
I need this slot added back to my phone. Thank you very much, phone manufacturers.
Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by mitthrowaway2 on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @12:07AM (#44958548)
Try a Sony Xperia! Vote with your dollar or else they'll stop making them!
Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by Namidairo on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @12:26AM (#44958618)
They've pulled out of my market (Australia) 6 years ago, so that's not really an option, even if I imported one.

If I imported one, the majority of the handsets released before this year wouldn't be able to register on a network, given that the networks have gone and blocked the IMEI TAC associated with most of Sony's handsets.[1]

This is due to Sony not having the correct carrier settings in order to roam onto them for emergency calls, and a ham-fisted direction to have working emergency calls post-3G shutdown.

[1] https://isthisphoneblocked.net.au/device-brands/sony

Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by Projectiboga on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @01:08AM (#44958798)
I loved the early Sony Ericsson but they lost their way on the phones. And the funky camera phones when their stand alone phones are decent to cutting edge.
Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by kogepathic on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @12:53AM (#44958727)
Xperia 5 IV owner here, don't give Sony any of your money.

Their support is garbage: 1 Android version and only 3 years of security updates for a phone that cost nearly $1000. Google and Samsung offer 5+ years on their flagship phones.

The cameras are held back by incompetent software; the camera app does not even rotate for a left handed mode (they only need to rotate text and icons). Their camera app behaves like a point and shoot camera from 2004, and you have to treat it like that or your photos will be a blurry, underexposed mess. The cameras are technically fine, but the software implementation is truly terrible.

Yes, the phone has a headphone jack and micro SD slot, but those aren't worth it when everything else sucks. Sony is far, far behind other major Android manufacturers when it comes to software quality and support.

I gleefully gave Sony money for the 5 IV in late 2022. The phone stops receiving all updates next month (September 2025). Custom ROMs (e.g. LineageOS) are nonexistent because Sony has such an insignificant market share.

I won't be giving Sony any money for a new phone.

Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by seabass-labrax on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @03:12PM (#44965225)
I'm writing this from my own Xperia 5 I device, and I can corroborate some of your complaints.

Most of the frustrations can be resolved by liberal use of third-party apps from F-Droid. Lawnchair and the Fossify suite make the basic experience quite reasonable, because the system UI components are thankfully not too heavily modified, only the system apps. With apps such as DAVx⁵ and Fennec it's really very useable.

Unfortunately the locked bootloader (which is completely illegal of course) is a big frustration and the main reason why you can't get custom ROMs running on it. I don't think it's about market share; some less popular brands have better community support because their manufacturers don't build artificial barriers to modifications. For security, this puts Sony's phones right down in my estimation and I too would not recommend them for this reason alone.

Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by numpad0 on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @06:14AM (#44960508)
I think you can thank Apple for that. They destroyed all the funky phones from competition.
Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by danaris on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @07:29AM (#44960863)
Apple just chose what the iPhone did.

The other phone manufacturers slavishly imitating them is what destroyed "all the funky phones".

There was no particular reason other manufacturers needed to copy absolutely everything Apple did.

Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by os2warpman on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @09:54AM (#44961982)
There is a near-infinite variety of phones. People claim that they want them but really they don't.

I know this because I used to try to help. I used to think that, for whatever reason, people just didn't know about all of the options out there.

I was wrong.

"I want a smaller phone" here's a smaller phone "yeah but I don't like that one".

"I want a thicker phone with a huge battery" here's a thicker phone with a huge battery "yeah but I don't like that one".

"I want a dumber phone" here's a dumber phone "yeah but I don't like that one".

"I want a privacy-focused phone" here's a privacy-focused phone "yeah but I don't like that one".

People will make up an infinite variety of excuses why a product that meets their chief stated requirement isn't for them.

"Oh the camera is only 24.9999 megapixels instead of 25. Oh that's 9mm thick I really can only do 8.9mm at maximum. Oh that's only IP68 rated I want IP69. Oh that screen is 5.4 inches-- TOO BIG-- I want a 5.25 inch screen."

The best was when someone wanted a rugged phone with long battery life and they rejected an option because its ARM cores ran at like 525MHz less than the latest shiny Samsung joint so they bought the skinny non-rugged non-gigundo-battery Samsung instead. They didn't understand that the only distance between the two would be in benchmarks, and only by small margins, and that to human perception there would be no difference.

What I think they want, instead of a phone that meets their requirements, is a POPULAR phone that they consider to be an aspiration goal or status symbol to be specifically designed to meet their personal requirements and that everyone else should have those same requirements too.

Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by echelon on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @10:21AM (#44962255)
The problem is that the market has a few clear market leaders that have dominated the field. Every other player is fighting for scraps.

It's almost impossible to compete with Apple and Google. Samsung is managing to hang on, but not many others can.

I think the level of software control that Apple and Google wield alone is cause for regulatory scrutiny and possible antitrust action. Maybe something like that can oxygenate the field for better competition.

Smartphones shouldn't be this stagnant. It should be a highly competitive market. But it isn't.

Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by parineum on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @10:50AM (#44962491)
> I know this because I used to try to help. I used to think that, for whatever reason, people just didn't know about all of the options out there.

> I was wrong.

You were wrong because you misunderstood the comment. When people say "I want a smaller phone" what they mean is "I want this phone, but smaller".

So when you tell them a smaller phone exists but it's also different in 20 other parameters, now there's a new problem, as you encountered. It's not because those people are disingenuous, it's because you misunderstood them.

Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by numpad0 on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @01:54PM (#44964326)
There used to be phones with a secondary display, full QWERTY keyboard, wireless split remote, whole Windows computer in the back, a completely square display, two displays of which one rotate, a plug-in dual display cover, dual SIM slot, a miniature video projector, fingerprint sensor in the back, TV tuner, FM radio, sleep-swappable battery, IP68 rating, laser barcode scanner, 1" equivalent image sensor, 42MP image sensor, actually mechanically zooming lenses, IrDA, strap holes, 3.5mm headphone jacks,

iPhone killed them all. Yeah I personally kind of want iMessage. Doesn't change the fact that iPhone killed them all.

Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by os2warpman on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @02:36PM (#44964803)
With the possible exception of IrDA, which in 2025 is like wanting a parallel port on a phone, pretty much all of that still exists.

Here's a phone with "a completely square display": https://www.walmart.com/ip/Rotatable-Phone-i19-Pro-Mini-Fold...

It even rotates but only the one screen.

I even found a phone with integrated barcode scanner, the UNIWA V9S.

Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by rasz on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @08:59AM (#44961540)
funnily enough iPhones had tiny NVMe storage since 6s 10 years ago, but Apple wont ever sell expandable storage option when it can gouge on upsells.
Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by dingaling on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @12:21AM (#44958605)
*lying around

Laying is transitive and requires an object.

Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by Projectiboga on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @01:03AM (#44958768)
Please lay off with the pedantry.
Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by ETH_start on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @07:59AM (#44961047)
This was educational, not pedantic. Pedantry would be dismissing his argument on the basis of a superficial flaw like this.
Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by DecentShoes on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @12:54AM (#44958731)
Pointless and unhelpful grammar Nazism.
Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by uoaei on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @12:45AM (#44958697)
Love the latent pedantry of HN. No shade! Bravo/brava!
Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by justincormack on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @08:06AM (#44961111)
Laying around is a fairly common usage, it might be regional not sure.
Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by marcianx on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @08:24AM (#44961252)
I've found this to be a common Americanism, but it's still incorrect, I believe. When I moved to the US in my teens, I was surprised at the sheer disregard of English grammar rules in common vernacular here, to the point that some folks (though not my English teachers) think their incorrect use is correct. :) The most marked case I saw was in a Dodo video where the person correctly said "lying", but The Dodo's captions "corrected" it to "laying".

But I digress.

Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by goosedragons on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @09:44AM (#44961897)
The fun thing about grammar is if enough people do it and think it's correct, it's correct. Languages change.
Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by lotyrin on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @09:55AM (#44961994)
Linguistics should seek to be descriptive rather than prescriptive. The field should, primarily, seek to describe language as used. Prescriptions can be useful and should be made if they improve a language's ability to provide clarity (please mind the theirs and toos, and sometimes an Oxford comma would clarify your sentence) but they should be held to be mere suggestions and not authoritative mandates.

The idea that there is only one correct way to use a language and that it is determined in academic circles and should be enforced on the masses is inherently based in illegitimate authority and social exclusion and is not a social force for good.

Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by linuxftw on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @09:49AM (#44961937)
Languages evolve over time. Someone's rules from 200 years ago need not apply, just as they likely didn't apply 200 years prior to that.
Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by usui on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @09:02AM (#44961565)
I could care less about your explanation!

> When I moved to the US in my teens, I was surprised at the sheer disregard of English grammar rules in common vernacular here, to the point that some folks (though not my English teachers) think their incorrect use is correct.

You noted a common feature of incorrect Americanisms, which is that many of its speakers proudly and ignorantly proclaim their usage is correct. Disregarding descriptive linguistics, all it takes is one second of logic to realize why an incorrect saying doesn't make sense at all, but even that is asking for too much without getting into an argument sometimes.

Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by Group_B on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @09:46AM (#44961916)
bait?

It's *couldn't care less my dude

Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by usui on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @10:07AM (#44962120)
Maybe reconcile in your mind the first line with the follow-up explanation to see whether it's bait or not and if it should be taken seriously.
Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by DarmokJalad1701 on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @12:29PM (#44963388)
> I could care less about your explanation!

Maybe you should care less about it then.

Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by estimator7292 on Thursday August 21, 2025 @09:58AM (#44972870)
English has this neat feature where any word can be used as a verb. Especially words that have no business being verbed.
Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by zoeysmithe on Tuesday August 19, 2025 @11:19PM (#44958349)
Hmm the article isn't about the interface being novel but the drives. The article claims the SD express cards top out a 900 MB/s but this drive does 3700 MB/s. They are using their own interface, but that's not the problem being solved here from my reading of this article.

I don't know the specifics but SD express might be patent/license encumbered so why pay when you can make your own for free?

I'm guessing this drive will eventually percolate down in the form of an SD Express card, and SD express is now in the Switch 2. The Biwin drive is currently too big to fit the SD spec, but that might not be true in the future.

I think Nintendo just sealed the deal against any SD Express competitors. This article is (probably) planted PR to promote this drive to Western buyers interested in maximizing their SD Express slots in a "Hey, why do these Chinese gamers get this amazing card and I'm stuck with this junk?" Now that lights a fire under a lot of people and Biwin can start licensing the technology or selling directly to the Western market.

Storage upgrades in handhelds seems to be a real problem. I was surprised my Steam Deck didn't have an easy to access M2 slot because of Valve's "pro-gamer" reputation. You have to take the entire thing apart to get to the SSD and the plain-jane SD slot you do get will never feel fast enough, especially since its hardware capped at 104 MB/s. Gabe didn't become a billionaire by not being ruthless I suppose, but it is disappointing.

I'm guessing a lot of these devices are sold at a premium for more storage so they don't want to make it easy to upgrade fast storage on your own. Instead we're just forced into the SD card ghetto. Maybe Biwin can change that, or the handheld makers will push against that if it means hurting their margins because the higher storage models are more profitable. Nintendo at least seems to signaling, "Do whatever you want with this fast SD slot," which is a breath of fresh air. What a time in gaming, where Nintendo is more progressive and pro-consumer than Valve.

Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by Dylan16807 on Tuesday August 19, 2025 @11:37PM (#44958432)
> Hmm the article isn't about the interface being novel but the drives. The article claims the SD express cards top out a 900 MB/s but this drive does 3700 MB/s. They are using their own interface, but that's not the problem being solved here from my reading of this article.

It's a really weak claim when you frame it properly. If you have a good controller you can use either form factor just fine, at PCIe gen 4 x2 speed.

> maximizing their SD Express slots [...] Now that lights a fire under a lot of people and Biwin can start licensing the technology or selling directly to the Western market.

That would be nice!

Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by DiabloD3 on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @01:53AM (#44959017)
The article is full of shit. SD Express cards, by virtue of being PCI-E x1 or x2, top out at whichever gen of PCI-E they implement.

Lets say its a brand new 4.0 card that implements x2 lanes, that is 3.93GB/s maximum speed (there aren't any 5.0 cards yet, afaik, but double that for 5.0).

Want to know where that 900MB/s figure came from? A 3.0 x1 card is 984MB/s. That is the first gen SD Express cards when the spec was launched, but not the currently available ones.

In other words, this is a PR release, this isn't news. It's marketing. They chose the worst case of their competitors, the best case of their own, and lied by omission.

Also, re: Valve's position on M2: they didn't support even swapping them when it first came out, although obviously allowed and expected, because you can put M2s in the device that are outside of the thermal parameters allowed by the design due to proximity to the battery and other heat producing items. This is also why they specifically used a 2230, as those are usually the lower power models meant for ultrathin laptops.

That said, Valve has worked with a few companies to get some officially blessed 2230s that actually do fit the intended use case and are also performant.

Like, if you think the Steam Deck sucks for actually doing the swap job, a) the new OLED replacement internally is a lot saner, with both construction and PCB layout, b) go try dealing with the really nasty designed laptops that don't have an externally accessible panel covering the drive bay; they're worse.

Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by zoeysmithe on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @02:14AM (#44959139)
I'm sorry I dont care how hard valve tried. They still failed. To the consumer, the sd card limitation on the Deck is consumer hostile. 100 MB/s is inexcusable for a device being sold today and one expected to run Unity and Unreal 4 games that clock in at the tens of gigabytes. They should have made it more open and allowed easy access to M2 slots. Instead they used storage cynically to sell higher tier products.

The entry level deck is $399 but the 1TB one is $649. Almost $800 with tax and shipping for something that can't even play Unreal 5 games and has no proper expansion is inexcusable, not to mention the bizarre and shortsighted decision to have only one USB-C port on the device, and being locked onto the 15-watt mode of the chipset.

Some of that cost is the OLED update but frankly its deceptive and dishonest customer hostile pricing. The storage limitations are intentional to sell the higher tier Deck. Gabe didn't get 5 super yachts by being a "good guy." He's just maximizing his profit. There are no "good guys" in capitalism, instead its purely transactional and game theory dictated from top to bottom.

I do find it a little depressing that Chinese and Japanese companies are eating US companies lunches because they somehow are more open, more pro-consumer, and more affordable the US offerings. When in the past the US products were the more open and hackable ones and the imports were the proprietary and locked down customer-hostile messes. Not just this but a lot of electronics now. The hackable, learnable, fun, etc ones are foreign while the US domestic ones are overly 'not repairable' and 'not hackable' and by design to maximize profit. What a shame. How far we've fallen.

Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by DiabloD3 on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @02:36AM (#44959257)
You bought a first gen product by a company that has never had an actual hardware design division, and you're complaining that it isn't perfect?

Also, how is the SD Card limitation on the Deck consumer hostile? The Steam Deck is an AMD platform PC. PCs typically do not even have SD card slots, and when they do, they are generic controllers plugged into the USB port.

To do SD Express, it requires a more expensive controller that can do PCI-E lane passthrough, and then you have to route those lanes somewhere and do it correctly. I am not aware of any laptop that opted to include an SD Express controller, and all of the Steam Deck competitors do not either.

The Steam Deck is advertised to implement a standard UHS-I card reader, and uses a better one that actually does do the full 104MB/s instead of the more frequently supported 52MB/s. UHS-I is common for 4k60fps cameras, such as Canon or Nikon bodies, or the GoPro, extremely few devices support UHS-II.

Like, I understand what you're trying to say, but nothing of that generation implements it, and the AMD SoC Valve uses afaik does not have the spare external PCI-E lanes to actually implement it anyways.

Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by parineum on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @10:54AM (#44962530)
> You bought a first gen product by a company that has never had an actual hardware design division

They've released hardware before.

Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by DiabloD3 on Thursday August 21, 2025 @01:46AM (#44969420)
Yes, but nothing like this. I had a Steam Link, for example, its really a verbatim copy of the dev kit of the ARM SoC they used. Fun fact, same SoC as the Chromecast 1, and the SoC is cursed.

The controller was kinda cool, I didn't get one with mine, but making a controller is an entirely different set of skills than making a computer.

Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by zoeysmithe on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @12:39PM (#44963453)
Vale has release several hardware products, many successful as well as being the brains behind the Vive.

Its not like Apple or other popular companies are any better in this regard.

Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by DiabloD3 on Thursday August 21, 2025 @01:51AM (#44969458)
The Vive hardware platform was built and designed by HTC for Valve, and the software platform was all Valve. It's more like Google's relationship with partners under the Nexus program, but unlike Google's Pixel line.

And yes, Apple design is kind of shit, but in a consumer hostile sort of way, not in an incompetence kind of way.

Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by jbverschoor on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @05:12AM (#44960139)
Yet I don’t trust any SD*. They always seem to corrupt, and I feel like the connector is not reliable enough. I’d rather not have such a thing directly connected to the bus
Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by lxgr on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @08:24AM (#44961257)
> They always seem to corrupt

That's entirely a function of NAND quality and controller sophistication. Why would a different form factor make a difference here?

Also, for an apples to apples comparison, you'd have to compare this new standard to microSD Express cards, not regular ones.

> I feel like the connector is not reliable enough.

Have you actually had a connector wear out? I'm not the biggest fan of the spring loading myself (I've had devices catapult microSD cards into the next room in the past!), but it seems pretty reliable in terms of actually making and keeping a connection to me.

Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by kiicia on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @03:34PM (#44965477)
There are specialized heavy duty sd cards like Kingston industrial, Samsung pro endurance, gigastone mlc, that have MLC memory and are designed for long term storage in extended environment parameters There are also other brands but are less known, more expensive and not available in typical places with consumer electronics

Same applies to SSD drives, there are consumer drives that have colorful boxes with claims like speed or size, and there are specialized SSD drives based on MLC chips that are still available here and there

Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by camdroidw on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @05:51AM (#44960374)
One time where I "express" suffix makes something better, TIL
Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by Spire42 on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @07:14PM (#44967494)
See also: PCI Express.
Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by porridgeraisin on Thursday August 21, 2025 @08:41AM (#44972043)
See also: express trains
Re:Tiny, removable "mini SSD" could eventually be a big deal... by lxgr on Wednesday August 20, 2025 @08:22AM (#44961241)
Unfortunately the microSD form factor of SD Express does not seem to support more than one lane, due to a lack of physical pins compared to full-sized SD Express cards (which can have a third row, i.e. one extra on top of UHS-2 cards).