News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:My 2.5 year old laptop can write Space Invaders in JavaSc... by FeepingCreature on Tuesday July 29, 2025 @10:47AM (#44724102)
True where trivial; where nontrivial, false.

Trivially, humans don't emit something they don't know either. You don't spontaneously figure out Javascript from first principles, you put together your existing knowledge into new shapes.

Nontrivially, LLMs can absolutely produce code for entirely new requirements. I've seen them do it many times. Will it be put together from smaller fragments? Yes, this is called "experience" or if the fragments are small enough, "understanding".

Re:My 2.5 year old laptop can write Space Invaders in JavaSc... by phkahler on Tuesday July 29, 2025 @11:23AM (#44724530)
>> Nontrivially, LLMs can absolutely produce code for entirely new requirements. I've seen them do it many times.

I think most people writing software today are reinventing a wheel, even in corporate environments for internal tools. Everyone wants their own tweak or thinks their idea is unique and nobody wants to share code publicly, so everyone pays programmers to develop buggy bespoke custom versions of the same stuff that's been done 100 times before.

I guess what I'm saying is that your requirements are probably not new, and to the extent they are yes an LLM can fill in the blanks due to its fluency in languages.

Re:My 2.5 year old laptop can write Space Invaders in JavaSc... by FeepingCreature on Thursday July 31, 2025 @04:12AM (#44743498)
Nothing is truly and completely new. I'm not formulating my requirements in an extinct language. My point is "filling in the blanks" and "do new things" are a spectrum.

LLMs have their limits, but they really can understand and productively contribute to programs that achieve a purpose that no program on the internet has done yet. What they are doing is not interpolation at the highest level. It may be interpolation/extrapolation at a lower level, but this goes for any skill learnt by anyone ever.

Re:My 2.5 year old laptop can write Space Invaders in JavaSc... by bayindirh on Tuesday July 29, 2025 @10:50AM (#44724137)
Humans can observe ants and invent any colony optimization. AIs can’t.

Humans can explore what they don’t know. AIs can’t.

Re:My 2.5 year old laptop can write Space Invaders in JavaSc... by falcor84 on Tuesday July 29, 2025 @10:56AM (#44724200)
What makes you categorically say that "AIs can't"?

Based on my experience with present day AIs, I personally wouldn't be surprised at all that if you showed Gemini 2.5 Pro a video of an insect colony and asked it "Take a look at the way they organize and see if that gives you inspiration for an optimization algorithm", it will spit something interesting out.

Re:My 2.5 year old laptop can write Space Invaders in JavaSc... by sarchertech on Tuesday July 29, 2025 @12:18PM (#44725223)
It will 100% have something in its training set discussing a human doing this and will almost definitely spit out something similar.
Re:My 2.5 year old laptop can write Space Invaders in JavaSc... by fc417fc802 on Wednesday July 30, 2025 @04:32AM (#44732015)
That's a good point but all it means is that we can't test the hypothesis one way or the other due to never being entirely certain that a given task isn't anywhere in the training data. Supposing that "AIs can't" is then just as invalid as supposing that "AIs can".
Re:My 2.5 year old laptop can write Space Invaders in JavaSc... by ben_w on Tuesday July 29, 2025 @11:33AM (#44724658)
> Humans can observe ants and invent any colony optimization. AIs can’t.

Surely this is exactly what current AI do? Observe stuff and apply that observation? Isn't this the exact criticism, that they aren't inventing ant colonies from first principles without ever seeing one?

> Humans can explore what they don’t know. AIs can’t.

We only learned to decode Egyptian hieroglyphs because of the Rosetta Stone. There's no translation for North Sentinelese, the Voynich manuscript, or Linear A.

We're not magic.

Re:My 2.5 year old laptop can write Space Invaders in JavaSc... by FeepingCreature on Tuesday July 29, 2025 @11:10AM (#44724373)
What makes you categorically say that "humans can"?

I couldn't do that with an ant colony. I would have to train on ant research first.

(Oh, and AIs can absolutely explore what they don't know. Watch a Claude Code instance look at a new repository. Exploration is a convergent skill in long-horizon RL.)

Re:My 2.5 year old laptop can write Space Invaders in JavaSc... by CamperBob2 on Tuesday July 29, 2025 @11:25AM (#44724567)
That's what benchmarks like ARC-AGI are designed to test. The models are getting better at it, and you aren't.

Nothing ultimately matters in this business except the first couple of time derivatives.

Re:My 2.5 year old laptop can write Space Invaders in JavaSc... by numpad0 on Wednesday July 30, 2025 @04:19AM (#44731957)
humans also eat