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Re:Intel's retreat is unlike anything it's done before in Or... by pjmlp on Thursday July 17, 2025 @08:12AM (#44592437)
This is a very Apple viewcentric point of view.

Windows on ARM is still largely ignored, everyone on the consumer level is more than happy with current Intel/AMD offerings.

Every single attempt to sell Windows ARM systems has been more or less a flop, including the recent CoPilot+ PCs.

Windows developer community also largely ignores Windows on ARM, unless there is an actual business value to support yet another ISA during development, CI/CD pipelines, and QA.

Only Apple gets to play the vertical integration game, our way or go away attitude, and they are the survivors of home computer vertical integration only because they got lucky when banks where already knocking on the door.

Re:Intel's retreat is unlike anything it's done before in Or... by pjc50 on Thursday July 17, 2025 @08:30AM (#44592567)
I did say "eventually", because I'm at the very start of "yet another ISA during development, CI/CD pipelines, and QA" work.
Re:Intel's retreat is unlike anything it's done before in Or... by pjmlp on Thursday July 17, 2025 @08:52AM (#44592815)
Which means that there is some business value on selling the software on Windows on ARM devices to budget such efforts.
Re:Intel's retreat is unlike anything it's done before in Or... by aggregator-ios on Thursday July 17, 2025 @10:10AM (#44593647)
Can you present data from sales numbers and developers showing this? Need to see the numbers of ARM vs x86 for sales and how many applications are currently one/both.
Re:Intel's retreat is unlike anything it's done before in Or... by pjmlp on Thursday July 17, 2025 @12:40PM (#44595214)
Walk into any random shopping mall computer shop and observe how many people care about buying Windows ARM, or are asking about them.

Those are my numbers.

If you prefer something more official,

https://www.pcworld.com/article/2816617/microsofts-copilot-g...

Re:Intel's retreat is unlike anything it's done before in Or... by SJC_Hacker on Thursday July 17, 2025 @05:01PM (#44598175)
> Walk into any random shopping mall computer shop and observe how many people care about buying Windows ARM, or are asking about them.

Those still exist?

Re:Intel's retreat is unlike anything it's done before in Or... by pjmlp on Thursday July 17, 2025 @05:25PM (#44598407)
Yes, all over the place in Europe.

Media Market, Carrefour, Publico, Worten, Cool Blue, FNAC,...

Re:Intel's retreat is unlike anything it's done before in Or... by sometimes_all on Thursday July 17, 2025 @10:27AM (#44593826)
> everyone on the consumer level is more than happy with current Intel/AMD offerings

They shouldn't be. Apple's chips changed the game so much that it was a no-brainer for me to choose them when I bought a new laptop - PCs just couldn't compete with that compute and battery life. Anyone with a decent enough budget is not even considering Windows.

I don't think any power user will be happy with Intel/AMD any more.

Re:Intel's retreat is unlike anything it's done before in Or... by michaelcampbell on Thursday July 17, 2025 @12:22PM (#44595016)
> Anyone with a decent enough budget is not even considering Windows.

Uhm, no. This is so totally dependent on your use case. I use my home box MOSTLY for gaming; it's just better on Windows. I also want a box I can upgrade. I never need to carry it with me.

Apple isn't even in the consideration space for me for that.

For work I don't have a choice, but the M[1-4] machines are _good enough_ for that; the battery life is nice, but I'm not mobile that often. I don't use its screen, mouse, or keyboard, so don't care there. The OS is close enough to familiar unixen that I like it fine, but WSL2 on Windows or native linux would be MORE THAN FINE, and closer to my deployment environment so would be better at way less cost, but our IT dept. doesn't want to support it so I get what I get.

Re:Intel's retreat is unlike anything it's done before in Or... by GeekyBear on Thursday July 17, 2025 @12:35PM (#44595166)
> I use my home box MOSTLY for gaming; it's just better on Windows.

Don't you mean on x86?

Windows on ARM is no more suitable for running legacy x86 games at full performance than any one else's OS on an ARM chip.

Re:Intel's retreat is unlike anything it's done before in Or... by pjmlp on Thursday July 17, 2025 @12:42PM (#44595233)
I think that was implied, proving the point that many don't even think about Windows ARM.
Re:Intel's retreat is unlike anything it's done before in Or... by pjmlp on Thursday July 17, 2025 @12:36PM (#44595177)
Gaming desktop rigs prove otherwise.

As for laptops maybe when there is something able to compete with Razor laptops for e-sports, using ARM.

Snapdragon chips ain't it.

Re:Intel's retreat is unlike anything it's done before in Or... by godelski on Thursday July 17, 2025 @05:28PM (#44598436)

  > This is a very Apple viewcentric point of view.
Which also isn't great for Apple. I mean they're lagging Microsoft now. We've all felt this coming, right? The M series was great but it's hard to think of more innovation after Jobs. I mean... things got smaller/thinner? That's so exciting... now can we fix the very basic apps I use every day that have almost trivially fixable bugs?

In a way, Pantheon feels weirdly accurate. People not actually knowing what to do. Just riding on momentum and looking for the easiest problem to solve (thinner & extract more money from those making your product better) because the concern is next quarter, not next year, not the next 5 years. What's the point of having "fuck your money" if you never say "fuck you"?

Re:Intel's retreat is unlike anything it's done before in Or... by pjmlp on Friday July 18, 2025 @04:15AM (#44602418)
Those of us that were around for when Apple was at the edge of bankruptcy can relate to a similar approach, where some products were great like the Newton, but the wind of the early days wasn't as strong.

They have plenty of money to burn, but unless they make their systems more affordable to the common man that doesn't live with tier 1 country salaries, they will eventually become the iPhone/iPad company.

There is no longer Apple hardware for servers, the way MacPro has been dealt with, it is clear that the professional desktop workstation is also not a market that they care about any longer, if the only PCI slots on studio are for audio cards.

So it doesn't matter how great the M chips are, if they don't have products on their portfolio that people care about buying, instead of having Windows/Linux/BSD systems for servers, and mostly Windows on consumer hardware (70% worldwide market share).