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Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by cletus on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @01:50PM (#4444950)
This resonates with me. Frankly I'm tired of owning "stuff". All I really need is a place to sleep, a laptop, a tablet, a phone and clothes. I'll get limited furniture but it'll be cheap Ikea stuff that I'll simply dispose of when I move.

I don't own a TV. In fact I doubt I'll ever own a TV again. Nor do I own a big sound system. I do own a table and chairs, a sofa and a desk. All but the desk I regret.

One thing that frustrates me no end is the one-dimensional nature of the housing and construction markets.

It seems that inner cities are (generally) expensive. Places are smaller, typically older and definitely more expensive per square meter. The further you go out, the places don't tend to get much cheaper (until you're really far out). They generally just get bigger.

Take Manhattan. I live downtown in a walkup. I could live across the Hudson in Jersey City. I'd pay slightly less but I'd have a much bigger and nicer place. But what if I just want a small place? Doesn't seem to exist.

Whenever this issue comes up I'm always reminded of the line from Fight Club:

The things you own end up owning you. [1]

It's totally true. I see a lot of posts (on mailing lists) from people moving to NYC. It typically starts out "I/we need a 2 bedroom apartment". Reasons vary. Sometimes it's for their "stuff". Sometimes they "need" an office. Sometimes they've simply never had smaller.

You can have that in the city but you'll be paying a fortune or living further out. The tradeoff is more apparent here than most places and it really forces people to make choices. Some cling to their stuff. Some don't.

[1]: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0137523/quotes

Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by munin on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @03:20PM (#4445402)
I'm pretty sure that when Palahniuk wrote that, his identification for 'stuff' included digital content and other non-tangibles. Great, you don't have a lot of stuff. how would you feel if your gmail went away tomorrow? bad? looks like stuff still owns you!
Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by vidar on Wednesday August 29, 2012 @05:28AM (#4447720)
This is a great perspective that will have to be learned the hard way by digital hoarders.
Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by yequalsx on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @02:07PM (#4445028)
I reached the same conclusion as you in January. I've since walked away from my mortgage on a two bedroom place in the burbs and bought an efficiency condo in downtown. I paid cash and in retrospect realize that my need for a two bedroom place was not well founded. I don't have kids and am not married so a two bedroom place wasn't necessary. Right now all of my expenses to live in my efficiency is 10% less than what my mortgage payment was.

I think the message of society (and by this I mean media and advertising) is that more is better. There tends to be a glorification of buying stuff merely for the object of buying stuff. "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" was ahead of its time in this regard. Now we have all kinds of such shows. I fell into the trap of going along with this type of thinking but have since seen the way in which my subconscious was manipulated.

The keeping up with the Jonses mentality is real and it's hard to step back and ask, "Why is this necessary?"

Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by bergie on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @04:31PM (#4445751)
When we moved from Helsinki to Berlin last spring, we took the opportunity to get rid of all the accummulated cruft, mostly by giving things away either to friends or charity. A strict regime of no books, no physical media, etc

In the end the "stuff" needed for living by two software developers boiled down to: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bergie/7662550710/in/set-721576...

(ok, on top of this there were two motorcycles that we rode over when the snows melted)

The weird thing about the move, however, is that thanks to Berlin rental situation, the flat we have there is bigger than what I ever had in Finland. While flats tend to come furnished, the place still seems very, very empty.

Given that we both have about two blocks of commute, the motorcycles are "unnecessary". But they certainly are fun on weekends.

Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by pavel_lishin on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @03:29PM (#4445448)
> It typically starts out "I/we need a 2 bedroom apartment". Reasons vary. Sometimes it's for their "stuff". Sometimes they "need" an office. Sometimes they've simply never had smaller.

Sometimes I work until midnight, while my partner likes to sleep without hearing me, or seeing the light from my monitor.

Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by stephengillie on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @02:53PM (#4445257)
For most of my life, I've been able to fit all of my possessions within my car, and move in one trip. Recently I've upgraded from a 20" monitor to a 46" tv. This means I'm up to 2 car trips.

It's frustrating to move entirely into a new place, and find that the place looks empty and plain because you simply don't have enough objects to fill the place. In a way, it reminds me of dieting: I hate having to eat like an anorexic American just to look like a healthy Human, and I hate feeling like I need to fill my residence with objects just to feel at home there.

I want to live in a nice ~400 sqft apartment in a city. But those don't seem to exist. I want to pay less than $600 a month for rent, but apparently I earn two times too much to pay so little. So I'm stuck paying too much for a too-big place which feels awkwardly too empty.

Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by danmaz74 on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @03:33PM (#4445468)
Wouldn't it be possible to buy a bigger apartment, create two smaller ones from it, and then sell one of the two?
Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by bunderbunder on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @02:31PM (#4445133)
The things you own end up owning you.

I think that stuff might be the single biggest source of stress in my life.

Not acute stress - it's not like I'm underwater on a loan or anything like that. Just a sort of constant low-grade 'micro-stress' that comes from always having to look at a cluttered living space and never being able to find that thing I'm looking for.

Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by sliverstorm on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @03:31PM (#4445457)
Ikea furniture sucks. If it's what you can afford, well, it's still functional- but if you can afford better, I've come to feel like good furniture is worth some extra stress.
Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by deltaqueue on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @06:16PM (#4446160)
Ikea wasn't always so bad; consumers just never changed buying habits when their quality went down, and when Ikea realized they didn't have many competitors in the "low to medium quality" space.

Exhibit A: 6-10 year old Jerker desk (no idea of age, bought 4 years ago on CL) is one of the solidest pieces of furniture I've ever purchased.

Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by chrisaycock on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @03:52PM (#4445566)
> Ikea furniture sucks.

Screenwriter John August says that Ikea's motto should be, "for now, it'll do".

Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by throwaway1979 on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @03:58PM (#4445585)
I've owned Ikea or similar grade furniture for most of my life. It actually bothers me that I have to keep re-buying the same things over and over again. It just seems very wasteful.

Non-Ikea furniture often seems horribly overpriced. I think there is a furniture store in Mountain View that sells $1000+ shelves or coffee tables. You'd think there is a middle ground.

Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by sliverstorm on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @04:42PM (#4445800)
I'm sure there used to be! But the introduction of the bargain option heavily polarized the market.

My solution has centered around two items; taking advantage of great sales at my preferred high-quality furniture retailer, and only going with the high-quality units for specific pieces of furniture.

Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by jaggederest on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @06:10PM (#4446141)
Go to estate sales, buy excellent furniture for 10ยข on the dollar.
Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by jkestner on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @10:15PM (#4446775)
Maybe the problem is you live in Mountain View. Absent of good vintage/used furniture stores, try Blu Dot (made in the US, even) or Craigslist.
Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by swah on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @10:42PM (#4446843)
I feel the same, I could live under the stairs if I lived in NY.