I don’t disagree with the characterization of ICE officers as racist thugs, but retaliatory violence is (1) still immoral and (2) self-defeating.

You aren’t realistically going to overpower them, so any violent resistance just helps them DARVO harder and excuse escalating their brutality. That’s why they’re always so eager to find or create violent one-offs within non-violent mass protests.

As the source article covers, the Trump regime believes that merely reporting the location of an ICE officer constitutes violence against them. I don't think it's a good idea to punch your local ICE officer, and if anyone's considering it I would definitely advise them not to, but issuing a blanket condemnation of hypothetical violence is just terribly naive at this point. I'm extremely confident that, at some point before 2028, someone is going to end up in federal custody for shooting masked home invaders they had no way to know were ICE.

Hmm. So the right has come around to "speech is violence"? I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

>I don’t disagree with the characterization of ICE officers as racist thugs

50% of Border Patrol agents are Latino. Believing the delusion that they're racist White rednecks is buying into propaganda.

Are you suggesting all racists are White rednecks? Racist systems are capable of absorbing contributions from all kinds of people. Whiteness has repeatedly expanded over time.

>Are you suggesting all racists are White rednecks?

Leftist have suggested and stated that only White people can be racist.

>Whiteness has repeatedly expanded over time.

Unscientific term.

https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/where_did_we_get_the_idea_...

> >I don’t disagree with the characterization of ICE officers as racist thugs

> 50% of Border Patrol agents are Latino.

Even if that was true, and relevant to their capacity to be racist thugs, Border Patrol is a unit of Customs and Border Protection (CBP)—and CBP is a different entity from ICE, at the same organizational level within the Department of Homeland Security—so it would still be a non-sequitur.

>Even if that was true

It is true.

>and relevant to their capacity to be racist thugs

Only White people can be racist remember?

>Border Patrol is a unit of Customs and Border Protection (CBP)—and CBP is a different entity from ICE, at the same organizational level within the Department of Homeland Security—so it would still be a non-sequitur.

Not at all, 30% of ICE agents are Latino, and we were told Border Patrol and ICE are White redneck neo-Nazi racist thugs. Surprise, that delusion is objectively false given these figures. QED.

>Even if that was true

It is true.

>Border Patrol is a unit of Customs and Border Protection (CBP)—and CBP is a different entity from ICE, at the same organizational level within the Department of Homeland Security—so it would still be a non-sequitur.

Not at all, 30% of ICE agents are Latino, and we were told Border Patrol and ICE are White redneck neo-Nazi racist thugs. Surprise, that delusion is objectively false given these figures. QED.

50% of the Latino population in the US are White Hispanic solely or in combination.

The idea that only "white rednecks" can be racist certainly is interesting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Hispanic_and_Latino_Amer...

That reminds me of the California Recall vote. Larry Elder being called the Black Face of White Supremacy.

>The idea that only "white rednecks" can be racist certainly is interesting.

Yes it is. Thanks to delusional beliefs: https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/where_did_we_get_the_idea_...

There's more than 340 million people in the US and only a handful are ICE.

All it would take is one bad day for anybody in ICE to be afraid to show up to work.

Deportation is a kind of draft, in that deportees are treated similarly to draft dodgers. ICE aren’t MPs, but in this analogy, they largely are folks who have already been drafted themselves, and who have reported for duty.

A bad day at work is just more contact with the “enemy” and is desired by some to separate the weekend warriors from the true believers. The fog of war is obscuring the reality of the outbreak of conflict which has been brewing under the surface for many years.

The revolution will not be televised because it won’t look like a revolution. It’ll look like C-SPAN. Whatever ICE is doing isn’t a revolution, it’s administrative. People voted for this, and they got it. If people want change, make it happen the way that other changes happen that stick. The lesson of Arab Spring is that even with the military on your side, revolution breaks the status quo, and once broken, norms change because the power structure has changed. Most folks don’t want revolution, they just want a vacation from reality. No one wants to put in the work to make revolutions happen because it’s a lot of paperwork, rehearsals, and standing around. It feels like work because it is. All that effort makes it look natural and inevitable, but that’s the magic of make believe.

A bad day at work as you suggest would be a magic act, but who’s gonna put in the work to pull that rabbit out of that hat? And who benefits from such an obvious misdirection?

I was at Occupy San Francisco, so I am not just asking questions, but asking you to re-examine what you believe is possible, and why you think a mock pitched battle with tin soldiers has tactical value, so I don’t know what your motive is, but I doubt you would be honest about your motives given the circumstances.

Please follow your convictions so you can be removed from the internet and placed in jail for a decade or two once you are processed through the legal system and found guilty of assaulting a police officer. The internet will be better off without your calls to violence.

Slowly running out of alternatives, unfortunately.

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK

Absolutely.

Violence does solve things, but also can make for an immediate 'Very Bad Time'.

Police use violence. Military uses violence. Difference is state-monopoly or not. To say violence doesn't work would be to say the police and military don't work - and they do.

Anybody calling on violent means should absolutely call upon peaceful means first, secondly, and more. Violence should only be after all peaceful means have been tried.

Its better to win by peaceful means, than by exertion of violence. And, violence is no guarantee of winning. And even if you do win, can still be pyrric, in which everyone loses.

Tl; dr. Be wary of people casually calling for violence. They're either a state actor, dumb, or both.

That's why Donald Trump's electoral victory stopped a violent revolution

No, your post shouldn’t be allowed because you’re inciting violence.

Inciting violence can be protected by the First Ammendment if it isn't inciting imminent illegal action. His post is probably protected. If he were pointing at a guy and saying "We should lynch that ICE agent right now!", that wouldn't be protected speech.

FWIW, I don't even remotely agree with what he's saying.

To add to this, the speech needs to be imminent, specific and actionable.

For example, "People should [bad thing] ICE agents" would be protected speech as it isn't imminent, specific or actionable.

This is true but HN does not claim to be a free speech site and instead is focused on interesting discussion. There are many things that are legally protected speech that will get you reprimanded or outright banned here.

"Shouldn't be allowed" is ambiguous.

They are officers and they are racist mercenaries.

This is not a new force, they have no new powers. They didn't need to hire new people willing to perform these actions nor train them how to do so.

If you haven't considered this before it should hit you like a hammer to the forehead: where are the resignations? Where are the "good cops" we keep hearing about, what are they doing?

The other federal, state, and local law enforcement officers that are assisting in these actions, where is their principled refusal to violate their oath to uphold the constitution? What statements are their powerful and normally very vocal unions making about all this?

Their "powerful and normally very vocal unions" are saying /nothing/, because the union's overall goal (by their messaging and their members messaging) is to increase and sustain additional hourly pay and increase the wages for said pay.

There is no effective system of checks and balances, or this entire discussion would be moot. Civilian solutions(like ICEBlock and friends) are a whimper of a response compared to the lethal and aggressive actions of these LEOs. Typically entrenched groups(like LEOs) can not be talked or reasoned with into changing their position. Those changes in position come from leverage (ie, your supervisor is replaced or leveraged with the threat of replacement), or direct aggression.

As an example, certain villains took issue with these systems and mounted their own lethal response. We are /still/ talking about these individuals because of how riotously effective their actions were at illuminating and mitigating the perceived problems. Whether your talking about Ted K, or Timmy M....they are examples of people who took action to correct a perceived problem. Right or wrong, every reader of this post knows who they are, what they did, and why they did it. Until something of equal magnitude opposes the authoritarian problem of the day(ie ICE), the status quo will continue.

edit: typo

There are no resignations because they signed up to enforce the law and that's what they are doing now. That you have slurped up propaganda painting that as racists doesn't make it so.