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Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by jseliger on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @12:29PM (#4444505)
Compare this to pg's essay "Stuff": http://paulgraham.com/stuff.html:

I have too much stuff. Most people in America do. In fact, the poorer people are, the more stuff they seem to have. Hardly anyone is so poor that they can't afford a front yard full of old cars.

Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by mindcrime on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @01:29PM (#4444848)
I've now stopped accumulating stuff. Except books—but books are different. Books are more like a fluid than individual objects. It's not especially inconvenient to own several thousand books, whereas if you owned several thousand random possessions you'd be a local celebrity. But except for books, I now actively avoid stuff.

I don't know... I own on the order of thousands of books (don't have an exact number, can't be bothered to count / catalog them all), and it can be fairly inconvenient, depending on the circumstances. In my own case, I own more books than can comfortably fit in my apartment, which means one of the biggest motivations I have to rent a bigger apartment, or buy a house, is to suit my books. And since my books have long since overflowed the amount of shelf space I have available, they wind up stacked up around the place, which gives my place a cluttered feel.

Moving is also a bitch with all these books. Books can be friggin' heavy.

That said, I still mostly agree with pg that books are different from random "stuff." I treasure my books (well, ok, maybe not that copy of "OLE DB Programming in C++") and figure having too many books is far less severe a sin than, say, a crack cocaine addiction.

Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by geebee on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @02:03PM (#4445011)
I agree with you about the burden of moving books. In that sense, they do carry the baggage of "stuff".

However, I don't put books in to the same category of visual clutter. When I look at a messy room or garage, overflowing with stuff, it makes me unhappy. Even after it's better organized, I still feel a little unhappy realizing that so much storage space is taken up by stuff.

Books do feel different. I enjoy seeing them, the sight of a lot of books is actually a little relaxing. They don't stress me out the way other kinds of stuff does.

Sounds like you have a lot of books stacked around... I could see how it might get to the point where you're feeling cluttered. And the main reason I like getting books from the library isn't so much that I don't have to pay for it but that I don't have to find a place to put it after I'm done.

Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by jseliger on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @01:34PM (#4444871)
I own more books than can comfortably fit in my apartment, which means one of the biggest motivations I have to rent a bigger apartment

I know the feeling, but a friend showed me the Container Store's "Elfa" shelving, which is pretty easy to install and provides seven to eight individual shelves in a particular space.

You can see a picture of my setup midway down this page: https://jseliger.wordpress.com/2012/01/10/january-2012-links...

Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by mindcrime on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @01:40PM (#4444911)
Cool stuff. My problem is, I don't really have more wall space for shelves. The two remaining walls that would make good candidates for shelving, I use for hanging whiteboards. :-)

That said, I could get rid of some of these books... especially older tech books that aren't relevant, either because they're plain out of date, or because I've made a conscious decision to move away from that technology, or both. For example, I have a lot of older books on various Microsoft / Windows technologies like COM, DCOM, ADO, OLE, etc. Frankly, it's very unlikely I'll ever use that stuff again.

Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by Retric on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @01:59PM (#4444994)
I would suggest dumping all but the very best tech books and buying them again if you actually need them. Sure, they cost's 50$ a pop, but for most tech people that's not really an issue.

http://my.safaribooksonline.com/

Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by mindcrime on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @02:43PM (#4445192)
Yeah, good point. And I am (slowly) starting to transition more and more to e-books. I by dead-tree tech books much less often than I did back in, say, 2001.

> http://my.safaribooksonline.com

I'm definitely thinking about signing up for a Safari subscription soon.

Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by johncch on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @03:12PM (#4445350)
May I ask what whiteboards are you hanging?
Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by mindcrime on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @03:22PM (#4445411)
May I ask what whiteboards are you hanging?

Just generic ones from Office Depot. I have four big ones (3x6 or so?) and one smaller one hanging in my living room (which is more of an office for the startup right now, than it is a "living room").

Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by johncch on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @03:38PM (#4445501)
Thank you. I have whiteyboard decals on my wall and it isn't working out so well, so I'm kinda thinking of switching to something else.
Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by stephengillie on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @02:43PM (#4445196)
I don't hold books in any special regard anymore. Now, they're just large objects that hold data less efficiently than other solutions. I can keep the text on a HDD or flash drive somewhere instead.

They're large, heavy, cumbersome objects. They're just more objects to be packed, carried, and worried about.

Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by sopooneo on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @08:49PM (#4446581)
I grew up in a poor rural area where lots of people (including lots of wonderful families) had broken cars in their yards. In case anyone is baffled by this, the main reason is that they can be mined for spare parts--for you or your neighbor. It's about holding onto a hundred things because you don't know which one is going to be useful and the storage cost is essentially zero. If you are well off then the price of spare parts isn't a concern, so it's worth it to you to have a clean yard.
Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by Evbn on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @01:17PM (#4444786)
PG should look at a city sometime.

People with junk cars can't afford to ditch them, not can afford to have more cars than rick people.

Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by saraid216 on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @03:48PM (#4445547)
Actually, what happens is that poor people are afraid to discard their unneeded stuff, because its modicum value is still value. Whereas in the middle class, at the end of the day, 90% of the stuff you have can be thrown away because you can be mostly confident that you can buy it again if you find out you needed it after all.

Most of what us non-poor people can't throw away is either sentimental, rare, or a major investment (a pool in your backyard, for instance) that can't be easily recouped.

In short, if you feel that you have a choice in the matter, that's what wealth is.

Re:The Untouchable Economy: Why Americans Are Turning Agains... by throwaway1979 on Tuesday August 28, 2012 @03:52PM (#4445565)
1-877-kars4kids

http://www.kars4kids.org/

Heh ... when I was a poor grad student, my old car died while I was far away doing an internship. I was freaked out when I saw how much some companies charged to dispose of the non-working cars. Then, I came across this charity.

In my case, I ended up getting the car to work again. Yay!