News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h by simianwords on Monday June 30, 2025 @01:22AM (#44419707)
I think higher speeds can help efficiency. For example it can help catch up a train that has been delayed.
Re:ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h by danieldk on Monday June 30, 2025 @02:03AM (#44419928)
West European rail is very full, so rail use is carefully coordinated, since trains of vastly different speeds (e.g. ICE vs a regional train) use the same tracks.

If an ICE is, say, 15 minutes late, they cannot just drive faster to catch up. The schedule went on, and at that point there may be a much slower regional or intercity train on the same trajectory.

This is why ICE delays tend to cascade. It starts with a short delay, the ICE gets stuck behind a slower train, increasing the delay, etc.

The solution is better maintenance of tracks and trains, adding more rail capacity, adding redundancy, etc.

Of course, these are all much more expensive than an ICE speed experiment for PR.

Re:ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h by simianwords on Monday June 30, 2025 @03:08AM (#44420352)
This looks technically correct but let’s exaggerate the speed up to drive my point. Let’s assume trains are 2x faster now than before. You can now either reduce the time and pack the schedule or use the extra “x” time for catching up when needed. Where does this logic break?
Re:ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h by scott_w on Monday June 30, 2025 @04:18AM (#44420763)
> the ICE gets stuck behind a slower train, increasing the delay, etc.

Right here. Those slower (older) trains don't magically get any faster just because the train behind it sped up.

> pack the schedule

You actually can't just double it up because faster trains need bigger gaps between them, just like driving on a motorway. If the train in front needs to slow/stop for whatever reason, you don't want the train behind smashing into it at 400km/h because it was tailgating.

Re:ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h by simianwords on Monday June 30, 2025 @11:21AM (#44424427)
Yeah I agree - you need big percentage of trains to get faster for the full effect.
Re:ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h by prmoustache on Monday June 30, 2025 @03:03AM (#44420329)
If it is the same as in Switzerland, the solution is in helping people get the health care they need. Most time I got annoying delays when I was living in Switzerland was because of a "personal accident" which 99% of the time meant someone had deliberately jumped in front of a train.
Re:ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h by adev_ on Monday June 30, 2025 @03:19AM (#44420407)
> If it is the same as in Switzerland, the solution is in helping people get the health care they need. [...]

Switzerland SBB/CFF and the German DB can not be compared, not even from far.

The Swiss trains are amongst the best in the world in term on punctuality. Delays barely exceed few minutes most of the time. Every connection is scheduled to be done < 5min. The usage is smooth like butter and It works like a Swiss clock.

At the opposite, German trains in the eastern part are barely on time and give you an almost Soviet experience for the regional one: The trains are old, poorly maintained, like the track itself and the service suffers of it.

The only place in Western Europe I experienced train to be worst than in Germany is currently in Hungary where there were actual soviet trains.

Even the freaking French SNCF with their legendary strikes tend to be more punctual than the DB.

Re:ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h by attendant3446 on Monday June 30, 2025 @03:51AM (#44420587)
The trains in the post-Soviet region may be old, but surprisingly, they are rarely late. I'm only talking about the post-USSR area, can't say much about the Eastern Bloc in general.
Re:ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h by timeon on Monday June 30, 2025 @04:07AM (#44420701)
> The only place in Western Europe I experienced train to be worst than in Germany is currently in Hungary where there were actual soviet trains.

As someone from the region, since when is Hungary 'Western' Europe? We are happy when acknowledged as 'Central' but this is new to me.

Re:ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h by adev_ on Monday June 30, 2025 @05:38AM (#44421269)
Good point, I meant mainly 'within the EU' here.
Re:ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h by holowoodman on Monday June 30, 2025 @05:01AM (#44421038)
France has a separate high-speed train network, so speed differences between high-speed (TGV) and low-speed (freight, low class passenger) trains don't cause inefficiencies.

Switzerland doesn't have high-speed trains, only low-speed ones. And all timetables are carefully tuned to half- or full-hour station distance intervals that all trains on a track take at the same speed ("Taktfahrplan").

Germany has the worst of all those worlds: No Taktfahrplan (because it probably would be impossible due to the larger and far more complex network), high- and low-speed trains on the same tracks, and only some sections of dedicated high-speed rail that drive up the cost but still have shared stations and sections with low-speed rail so that punctuality goes down when the tiniest thing goes wrong.

Re:ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h by adev_ on Monday June 30, 2025 @07:15AM (#44421847)
> France has a separate high-speed train network, so speed differences between high-speed (TGV) and low-speed (freight, low class passenger

Yes 100% right. Japan has the same where the Shinkansen uses dedicated track. If I do not say a mistake, China does the same too.

The fact it never has been done in a modern country like Germany with a dense high speed train traffic like the ICE is clearly a sign of planning deficit from the authorities.

Re:ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h by holowoodman on Monday June 30, 2025 @07:37AM (#44422029)
It's just a difference in aims and circumstances. Japan has multiple train companies operating different networks, so a separate network was the only thing they could build. France accepted the compromise that high-speed TGV stations are far outside of the city areas, like airports, which makes nominal travel times fast, but the first and last miles will always be slow local trains to the city centre. Germany wanted ICE passengers to arrive at the central train station of a city, so using the existing train network at least partially is the only possibility. China has larger distances and no preexisting dense network, so building separate and dedicated is easier. Also, they maybe don't fuss about tearing down a few buildings and disowning a few home-owners who are in the way of their new dedicated high-speed route and station.
Re:ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h by adev_ on Monday June 30, 2025 @07:54AM (#44422173)
> Japan has multiple train companies operating different networks, so a separate network was the only thing they could build

The Shinkansen initial network and separated tracks have been built at an age where JRails was still a single centralized company.

The main reason was to create a network with a focus speed and punctuality. And to be fair, it was the right choice and pretty revolutionary at the time.

Re:ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h by prmoustache on Monday June 30, 2025 @08:58AM (#44422723)
"France accepted the compromise that high-speed TGV stations are far outside of the city areas, like airports, which makes nominal travel times fast, but the first and last miles will always be slow local trains to the city centre. "

That is not true, some TGV dedicated stations have been put in remote area (mostly in far right areas), but there are lots of cities that have high speed train stopping at the central station in the center.

Re:ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h by detaro on Monday June 30, 2025 @03:15AM (#44420386)
It of course happens in other places too, but the Swiss are somewhat standout in how much they have their other operations in order. It's funny in a sad way that international connections into Switzerland actually get limited because the Swiss don't want other operators fucking up their internal schedule constantly.
Re:ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h by attendant3446 on Monday June 30, 2025 @03:55AM (#44420614)
I was late to reply, but as others have noticed, delayed trains can't always "catch up" with the schedule. ICE trains can accelerate to 405 kph, but regional trains using the same rail can't.
Re:ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h by pixelfarmer on Monday June 30, 2025 @01:38AM (#44419791)
It can, but it requires the track to be free in front of it and being allowed to go at the required speed to catch up.
Re:ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h by simianwords on Monday June 30, 2025 @01:42AM (#44419814)
Yes but it’s a strictly better situation to be in although your point is valid.
Re:ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h by eptcyka on Monday June 30, 2025 @01:46AM (#44419840)
Do you imply that trains would normally run slower than what they can safely achieve?
Re:ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h by tonfa on Monday June 30, 2025 @02:21AM (#44420058)
With clock face scheduling (like in CH and planned for Germany) they very much do since schedules are optimized to align with periodicity.

On some Swiss lines it's fairly common to have trains recover their delay at departure (which also avoids cascading impact).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock-face_scheduling

Re:ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h by Brian_K_White on Monday June 30, 2025 @02:08AM (#44419964)
Everything always runs at 80% down to even 50% for normal 99% of the time operation. Not just trains, everything.
Re:ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h by Propelloni on Monday June 30, 2025 @03:29AM (#44420460)
What was the old chestnut? A traffic jam is a highway at 100% capacity? Something like that, can't remember who said it. Niels Pfläging perhaps?
Re:ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h by simianwords on Monday June 30, 2025 @02:04AM (#44419937)
i don't know where i implied that but it is well known that this is the case in order to give buffer time.
Re:ICE test train reaches speeds of up to 405.0 km/h by holowoodman on Monday June 30, 2025 @04:55AM (#44420999)
Higher speeds reduce efficiency.

The most efficient use of the tracks would be to limit all trains to the speed of the slowest train that travels a route. Then you can have minimal distances between trains.

Also, faster trains are less fuel-efficient, quadratically with speed. So a slowdown would help the environment and the throughput. The only thing it wouldn't improve is passenger happiness ;)