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Re:Central Park hits temp record last seen in 1888 by sneak on Tuesday June 24, 2025 @08:48AM (#44365612)
I’m not a denier, nor do I dispute climate change, but it seems taken for granted that extreme weather events as of late are caused directly by climate change.

It seems probable; likely even.

But how do we know? Is it a guess?

The very fact that New York hit this temperature in 1888 (pre industrial revolution) suggests that we can’t take it on faith, as we have at least one data point that suggests heat spikes like this have happened in recent planet history without extra atmospheric CO2.

Re:Central Park hits temp record last seen in 1888 by Cthulhu_ on Tuesday June 24, 2025 @08:53AM (#44365674)
There's a correlation, but it's better to look at long term weather trends and averages, like this page does https://www.climate.gov/news-features/understanding-climate/... (read it while it's not censored yet). It shows a clear increase in average temperatures, at least for the time period we have fairly accurate figures (so after 1880).

for anything before 1880 and pre-history there's other sources like deep ice cores, geological strata, tree rings, etc. Not accurate, but good enough for an educated guess.

Re:Central Park hits temp record last seen in 1888 by this_user on Tuesday June 24, 2025 @09:30AM (#44366071)
> But how do we know? Is it a guess?

We can be pretty certain that something is happening, and we are not just seeing randomness. We can also be certain enough for practical purposes that we know what the cause is.

In a situation where the consequences will be nothing short of catastrophic on a global scale and we are already far too late, insisting on 100% academic purity is really not a sensible position.

Re:Central Park hits temp record last seen in 1888 by sneak on Tuesday June 24, 2025 @11:28AM (#44367279)
I’m not insisting on 100% purity. I’m just a complete layperson and I want to know how we know what we know.
Re:Central Park hits temp record last seen in 1888 by femiagbabiaka on Tuesday June 24, 2025 @08:55AM (#44365691)
The effects of human-driven climate change are not about the existence of extreme weather events, but about their frequency.

https://science.nasa.gov/earth/climate-change/extreme-makeov...

Re:Central Park hits temp record last seen in 1888 by aaronbaugher on Tuesday June 24, 2025 @09:10AM (#44365840)
That's exactly what my climatist friends tell me when the weather is nice, and they're correct. Climate change, as described by the scientists, is not about day-to-day, or even year-to-year, weather patterns.

But when the weather is nasty, they say "Look at the climate change, denier!"

Re:Central Park hits temp record last seen in 1888 by femiagbabiaka on Tuesday June 24, 2025 @09:52AM (#44366276)
Long term changes are driven by day-to-day events. So, given that there are heat dome events every other summer now[1], they're actually correct. I think a reason that it might be hard for people to accept is that humanity is now, literally, the frog boiling in the pot. I imagine that Gen Alpha climate change deniers will be even more vociferous in their pleas that 100+ degree temps all summer every summer are actually normal.

1: 2012, 2018, 2021, 2023, 2025 at least: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_dome

Re:Central Park hits temp record last seen in 1888 by timr on Tuesday June 24, 2025 @02:31PM (#44369225)
There have been "heat dome events" every year I've been alive. We just didn't call them that, because we used to call this phenomenon "summer". When I was growing up in central Ohio several decades ago, it would routinely get up into the high 90s on summer afternoons.

I'm very serious. And no, I am not a "climate denier". The earth is getting warmer, but you cannot measure it in discrete events like you're trying to do.

Re:Central Park hits temp record last seen in 1888 by femiagbabiaka on Tuesday June 24, 2025 @07:50PM (#44372288)
Except that none of what you said is true.

https://penntoday.upenn.edu/news/extreme-summer-weather-patt...

https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2504482122

Why not at least do an internet search first?

Re:Central Park hits temp record last seen in 1888 by timr on Tuesday June 24, 2025 @11:52PM (#44373497)
Internet searches don't help you if you can't understand the basics of what you're reading.

1) The paper is very clear that it's talking about changes over a 50 year period, which is more than my entire life. It's certainly not something you're going to use to explain a particular hot day this year, or even an imagined increase in hot summer days over the past decade. In my lifetime, the regression line of their count of annual "QRA events" has gone from a bit less than 2, to a bit more than 2.

2) The phenomena discussed in the paper is described as a particular spectral decomposition pattern in the global upper atmosphere [1], not a frequency measurement of heat events. The pattern may be related to the weather, but like everything else in climate science, you can't use it to explain the outcome on a particular day. And it certainly doesn't explain the existence of what normal people call "hot summer days", which have, indeed, existed forever.

[1] Specifically: "A QRA event is counted as such if high-amplitude, quasi-stationary planetary waves of wave numbers 6, 7, or 8 are found in the atmospheric wind field in ERA5 data, and at the same time certain resonance conditions are met".

That's what the paper is about. They counted those, and plotted them in Figure 1: https://www.pnas.org/cms/10.1073/pnas.2504482122/asset/22f39...

Re:Central Park hits temp record last seen in 1888 by femiagbabiaka on Wednesday June 25, 2025 @11:12AM (#44378272)
Wait, so are frequent heat dome events not real and just summer? Or not? That was the claim you made. Frequency of events happens because of subsequent individual events... I guess the second or third time in a year we see heat domes is the only appropriate time to bring it up?

Climate change is one of the only topics where people choose to be so pedantic, and frankly unnecessarily insulting.

Re:Central Park hits temp record last seen in 1888 by timr on Wednesday June 25, 2025 @01:02PM (#44379535)
> Wait, so are frequent heat dome events not real and just summer? Or not? That was the claim you made.

No, that isn't what I said. Here is what I said:

> There have been "heat dome events" every year I've been alive. We just didn't call them that, because we used to call this phenomenon "summer".

I don't know how you get to "heat dome events aren't real" from that. They're real. They're also part of summer, but the terminology is new. The paper you cited, in fact, shows that they go back 50+ years. They're just slightly more frequent now.

> I guess the second or third time in a year we see heat domes is the only appropriate time to bring it up?

Again, you should actually look at the paper -- or just the first figure. I linked to it for you, so it couldn't be easier. You will see these events happening 4+ times a year going back into the 1950s. We're talking about a very subtle historical change, here.

Re:Central Park hits temp record last seen in 1888 by ajsnigrutin on Tuesday June 24, 2025 @09:03AM (#44365783)
This is still a very short-term chart, compared to eg.: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Global-mean-temperatures...

Not saying or denying anything, but on a universe-al scale, 200 years is nothing, since some changes take longer.

Re:Central Park hits temp record last seen in 1888 by femiagbabiaka on Tuesday June 24, 2025 @09:54AM (#44366304)
Human-driven climate change isn't about what happens when the climate follows long standing patterns over millennia, it's about what happens when it stops following those patterns.
Re:Central Park hits temp record last seen in 1888 by jakelazaroff on Tuesday June 24, 2025 @09:34AM (#44366108)
Perhaps this chart is more convincing: https://xkcd.com/1732/
Re:Central Park hits temp record last seen in 1888 by tapoxi on Tuesday June 24, 2025 @09:22AM (#44365981)
It makes the formation of heat domes significantly more likely, and that's what causes these temperatures.
Re:Central Park hits temp record last seen in 1888 by s3krit on Tuesday June 24, 2025 @09:01AM (#44365755)
1888 is very much not 'pre-industrial revolution', which had started over 100 years prior.
Re:Central Park hits temp record last seen in 1888 by bluGill on Tuesday June 24, 2025 @09:03AM (#44365781)
True, but 1888 had much less CO2 in the air. Or so we assume, we didn't measure it.
Re:Central Park hits temp record last seen in 1888 by Sayrus on Tuesday June 24, 2025 @09:24AM (#44365999)
Actually we do have measures of it based on ice cores. We went from ~280ppm at the time to over 400ppm today.
Re:Central Park hits temp record last seen in 1888 by bluGill on Tuesday June 24, 2025 @11:04AM (#44367029)
I forgot about that we have that data. Thanks for the correction.