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Re:2025 Iberia Blackout Report by giantg2 on Monday June 23, 2025 @05:36PM (#44360408)
Seems like pumped hydro offers a nice compromise.
Re:2025 Iberia Blackout Report by AnotherGoodName on Monday June 23, 2025 @05:44PM (#44360472)
Fwiw the hornsdale battery linked above cost AUD$172 million and can provide 2000MW of equivalent inertia. Link: https://www.energymagazine.com.au/sa-approves-world-first-ba...

That equivalent inertia can only be done for short periods but that's exactly what grids need in stability - there's generally no lack of total generation, just a need to jump in and smooth out spikes.

You can't build a dam for that price, nor could you do it in under 100 days from contract signing as that battery was built. Batteries are definitely the answer here. The 'more spinning mass' answers don't make sense since Australia literally solved the above problem in a much cheaper way already.

Re:2025 Iberia Blackout Report by giantg2 on Monday June 23, 2025 @06:02PM (#44360644)
You don't need to build a dam, you just need the pipes and pumps for an existing dam (or elevated natural basin).
Re:2025 Iberia Blackout Report by _carbyau_ on Monday June 23, 2025 @07:47PM (#44361392)
I thought you needed two dams. One higher than the other. You pump water back and forth between the two to generate or capture energy.

Is it that common that dams are already existing in nearby-ish pairs with the sufficient height difference? And that we haven't done this already?

Doing this is good where we can. But it has geographical limitations. Batteries don't so much.

Re:2025 Iberia Blackout Report by Rodeoclash on Monday June 23, 2025 @08:16PM (#44361565)
My layman's understanding is that most locations that are suitable for pumped storage already have pumped storage built on them.
Re:2025 Iberia Blackout Report by MobiusHorizons on Monday June 23, 2025 @08:57PM (#44361834)
Yep, this is the issue. That and land cost. Also pumped hydro is most useful when you need very large capacity storage, whereas for preventing blackouts you need very high capacity fast generating to fix oscillations or to allow more generating capacity to come on line. They are basically acting as decoupling capacitors (except for AC) in this application.
Re:2025 Iberia Blackout Report by Polizeiposaune on Monday June 23, 2025 @08:27PM (#44361630)
You need two sufficiently large bodies of water close to each other at different elevations. You don't necessarily need two dams - for instance, the Ludington pumped storage plant adjacent to Lake Michigan uses the lake as the lower body.
Re:2025 Iberia Blackout Report by floatrock on Monday June 23, 2025 @07:16PM (#44361197)
Most economically-suitable locations for pumped hydro have been built out already.

You can always use a ton more concrete and force new locations, but the best locations have already been utilized and scaling law of batteries has brought them to the point where they're more competitive than new hydro for this kind of use.

Re:2025 Iberia Blackout Report by bryanlarsen on Monday June 23, 2025 @09:20PM (#44361972)
Most economical locations for hydro generation have been built out already. Pumped hydro doesn't require flow like generation does, so there are thousands of times more suitable locations. Those haven't been built out.
Re:2025 Iberia Blackout Report by Maxion on Tuesday June 24, 2025 @12:51AM (#44362940)
At least in my country they have. They keep trying to build a facility but anything they come up with, the ROI just isn't there.
Re:2025 Iberia Blackout Report by bryanlarsen on Tuesday June 24, 2025 @11:17AM (#44367165)
In other words, there are lots of places they could build, but it's just too expensive to build and/or the value of long term electricity storage is too low.
Re:2025 Iberia Blackout Report by plorg on Monday June 23, 2025 @07:17PM (#44361203)
Sure, if you can site it.