Which hostile forces? The US has attacked nuclear sites which they're using to build Nuclear bombs, not sent a warhead into Tehran. I think you're underestimating the dissatisfaction of the Iranian people people with the death cult in charge.

What would happen to American patriotism if China "pre-emptively" attacked its military research facilities? It would be the only thing on the news, and the only thing people would want would be revenge.

Yeah but the difference is that America isn't a fundamentalist theocratic death cult hell bent on eradicating an entire religion and anyone associated with it. There's a stark difference there isn't there? Or are you trying to put Iran and America on the same plane?

> Yeah but the difference is that America isn't a fundamentalist theocratic death cult hell bent on eradicating an entire religion and anyone associated with it.

Are you sure about that now? Did you miss the part where your president was openly discussing plans on annexing territories from it's allies?

Ah, the American exceptionalism..

> death cult

USA is the most murderous country in the world, by far

Of course, but it's not a death cult though is it? There's a difference between a calculated killer and an utterly mindless collective build upon the idea that everyone else should literally be dead. Do you see my position? Should we just give these maniacs some nuclear bombs and hope for the best?

How about you Google SAVAK and then get back to me on how receptive you think Iranian citizens are of American "guidance" under "democratic leadership" and all that jazz.

I think you're underestimating how many Iranians the CIA allowed to be tortured and raped in the Shahist regime. Agree to disagree?

Compared to khomeini, who started out by killing (mostly after torture) about 3800, mostly his own allies, some of which hadn't even finished primary school?

Yes. America's "liberator complex" is pretty much the #1 reason we got dicked down in Vietnam despite expecting a decisive victory.

I think you need to go back to the history of the Iranian revolution and re-read. America was largely with the shah, as was anyone with one iota of sense. The socialist liberator of the people was khomeini, with support from leftists worldwide, from Moscow to Brazil, Berlin to ...

Socialists who kept supporting khomeini after it became very clear that he sent in thugs to murder his own supporters, so he could blame "zionists" for the killings, or that he sent snipers into a protest to fire from within the crowd at security services ... I mean socialists use tactics like that even today, although of course compared to khomeini even the KGB look like gentle souls.

That's one reason everything about Iran's theocratic regime is called "revolutionary this", "the supreme blahblah council", or the double army structure, the reason that a theocracy has a ministry of labour (which unions are forced to be part of, you know, like the soviet union) ... it was created and organized by socialists. They came to power through student protests and union strikes.

Then khomeini started executing them. First, 3800 at once, then between 300 and 1000 every year. Khamenei is dutifully continuing the islamist executions. This year is definitely going to be 5000+ executions.

You know how many deaths are actually attributed to the evil interference of the US in Iran before the revolution? What socialists tried to fix? The reason they supported the mass-murdering clerics?

... 89 people.

I am so sorry that you insist on being humiliated like this: https://apnews.com/article/072580b5f24b4f8ea2402221d530257e

Can I ask you an honest question? Why would this be humiliating?

I get that the whole world likes to blame the CIA for Iran ... despite of course socialists (by which I mean the socialist international, as well as socialists in the sense of worldwide protests) of course having much more to do with the rise of the Iranian regime, and indeed supporting the Iranian regime even after it became clear that they like to attack, even kill, their own people just for propaganda. That does not make the Sha's actions ok ... I get that, but the point was that they do not compare. But more: even if I'm wrong, why would that be humiliating?

Also: I'm a geek. Perhaps a bit older but not (much) different. I do not really feel much if everyone disagrees with me. That happens regularly, and whilst I'm definitely wrong on occasion, I've done very well disagreeing with everyone too.

So they're more concerned about something that was dissolved in 1979 more than the backward theocratic death cult in charge today? aGrEe tO dIsAgReE?

Yes. Iran did have a democratically-elected Prime Minister before they were removed in a joint US-Israeli coup d'état. Iranians are perfectly justified in viewing America as the enemy of democratic reform. They are also justified in their worry over Israel installing a worse theocratic death cult, as I argued above.

Ah well, let's just leave them be then. The people are upset. You're right. We should just let them enrich a little more uranium and hope for the best.