JFC this is a really intensely bad line of thinking. This is literally the kind of zero-sum win or lose kill or be killed thinking that lead to the holocaust. There are so so so many other possible way to achieve peace that don’t involve the death of millions.

You very well might have applied this same logic to ireland during the troubles, and advocated for the extermination of all irish-Catholics or all irish-Protestants. Yet we have had 2-3 decades of peace now, and a resuming of violence seems unlikely.

It seems stuck and peace impossible because that serves to reinforce the goals of those with power in this situation. There are solutions, they just involve a small minority with a disproportionate amount of influence (e.g. US oil companies, ideological christian imperialists, zionist absolutists) not getting their way.

If the Arabs had just wiped out the settlers establishing Der Judenstaat near the turn of the 20th century, I have a real hard time coming to a calculus where it wouldn't have been more peaceful death tally than where we are at now.

This assumes wrongly that the problem in the region is multiple ethnic / religious groups. That is literal nazi ideology.

Ethnic/religious persecution amongst other ethnic/religious groups being the origin of Jewish strife is literally the ideology written by Herzl in the groundwork that argued for Israel, noting incompatibility with living amongst other ethnic groups in Europe, and I would note somewhat accurately considering the Nazis (and others) indeed went on an ethnically aligned campaign to kill them all off.

Unwittingly, you are arguing the foundation of Israel is Nazi ideology.

> Unwittingly, you are arguing the foundation of Israel is Nazi ideology.

You don’t say?? A state that can only exist as the result of ethnic cleansing? A state that is currently committing numerous acts of genocide? Huhhh.

Lol so all that just to decide we agree with each other.

We agree that the ideology you are spouting is similar to the ideas that underpin nazism, and justifies genocide in the name of peace.

After that, we have nothing else we agree on, because your ideology is based on a false description of reality.

I never argued that peace was justified, ergo neither did I agree genocide was justified.

It is the Isreali Nazis arguing in favor of this peace.

You’ve created a false choice between endless war and peace thru genocide. Both have been enacted by israel. Pre-oct-7th “trimming the weeds” israel, and the post-oct-7th ethnic cleansing of gaza. The problem isn’t which option you chose - the problem is the framework of the choice is based on a lie and leads to evil actions either choice.

I said genocide might be the most peaceful option. There might be other relatively peaceful ones. I certainly don't see how you can be certain, though, there is an option of peace in the middle east without eliminating rival group -- that is your own potentially false choice. Sometimes reality isn't a utopia.

> The US, EU, UK, and individual countries have all determined no genocide

https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147976

“Specifically, Israel has committed three acts of genocide with the requisite intent: causing seriously serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group, deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part, and imposing measures intended to prevent birth within the group,”

That the political allies of israel defend it by denying an ongoing genocide is hardly evidence it’s not happening.

> Moreover, civilian deaths stop in Gaza the moment Hamas surrenders and returns the remaining hostages.

Patently false: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-netanyahu-...

Israel turned down a deal back in january 2024 that would have released all the hostages.

If hostage taking is wrong - Israel held thousands of palestinians without charges prior to oct 7th.

If hostages are the reason for the war, why has israeli bombing killed so many of the hostages?

> The unfortunate truth is that the Palestinians in a fair election elected Hamas, a terrorist organization that seeks to destroy Israel.

That, and oct 7th, are all events that happened long after the ethnic cleansing of palestine started. The policy of “Trimming the weeds” lead to an intensification of anti-israeli sentiment in gaza.

But the election of which you speak was in 2006 - and hamas was elected. It’s been 19 years since an election in gaza. So anyone under 37 killed since oct 7th could not have voted for hamas. That’s most of them btw.

Also, you do see that the tread you’re responding to is someone explicitly saying the only path to peace is complete genocide of either gazans or israelis? Pick your friends better maybe?

>Based on the population over/under killing off all of Gaza seems to be the most peaceful solution.

That's some of the most degenerate, nihilistic, disgusting, inhumane rhetoric I've ever seen. Ethnic cleansing and genocide is "the most peaceful solution"? What the fuck?

>once they all perish I don't think they'll be able to defend themselves or engage in hostilities.

No shit they won't be able to engage or defend themselves - they'll be dead long before that.

I mean, this is why I am not an advocate for peace. Peace is often degenerate, nihilistic, genocidal, disgusting, inhumane.

PEACE is? Nobody blowing eachother up is a bad thing?

When you consider the only way to achieve that is to first kill off all humans or set them into the stone age, yes I would say so.

So when you adopt a false core premise? Cool.

I’ve only seen these kinds of mental gymnastics from Zionists who are forced into this non-coherent blabber to distract from their inhumanity. You must destroy peace for nearly a century to have peace? But then we haven’t had peace for a hundred years genius.

Keep pretending like your murder of children is the way towards peace. The rest of the world will just look at it with disgust.

This is far from what zionism is about, this is a deranged take of some psycho on the internet.

I know that’s true in theory. But in reality this has become the mainstream interpretation to the point where we see the same take from Israeli government ministers. It’s certainly become mainstream in Israeli right-wing circles and the right-wing has ruled Israel for ever basically.

How will things change?