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Re:Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wi... by alistairSH on Thursday June 12, 2025 @12:29PM (#44259636)
We could zero out the military budget and that still doesn't get us anywhere close to balanced. Even cutting 100% of discretionary spending barely does the job.

We either need massive cuts in mandatory spending (fundamental changes to social contract) or increased revenue (politically not viable).

There's also near zero evidence we actually need a balanced budget for a healthy economy.

Re:Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wi... by somenameforme on Thursday June 12, 2025 @01:44PM (#44260514)
> There's also near zero evidence we actually need a balanced budget for a healthy economy.

I don't think this is really supportable. Obviously one can appeal to the practically endless examples of countries that destroyed their own economies with debt. Of course the obvious argument to this is that this hasn't happened to the US. But there were extremely unique, and liminal, circumstances that explain this, that a search on "exporting inflation" [1] can largely explain. And those days are mostly behind us.

We can see this playing out in practice. Current interest payments on the debt are now $1.1 trillion per year. They've grown exponentially, far faster than the debt has. [2] The reason for this is that we can't just handwave away inflation so easily anymore, so we're now experiencing more like what would happen to other countries that let their money printers get a bit too excited. The Fed is keeping rates high in hopes of bringing inflation down, but it's just not really working. What this means is that when the government sells treasuries (which is how they 'print money') they need to offer ever higher interest rates. Notably even 20 year treasuries right now are offering yields of about 5%, so it seems most are not enthusiastic about things getting much better.

I think we're well on our way to becoming another of history's cautionary tales that the next great power will also certainly think doesn't apply to them, because if something hasn't exploded in 50 years, that must mean it'll never explode.

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[1] - https://search.brave.com/search?q=exporting+inflation

[2] - https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/A091RC1Q027SBEA

Re:Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wi... by alistairSH on Thursday June 12, 2025 @01:59PM (#44260664)
That's fair. I should have been more precise... There's little evidence we need to have a totally balanced budget every year. Current spending levels are likely unsustainable. Either way, we still can't balance the budget by only cutting discretionary spending - any serious discussion of a balanced budget MUST include the revenue side, plus possible changes to the social contract (IE, all the programs that just about everybody wants to keep).
Re:Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wi... by borvo on Thursday June 12, 2025 @01:05PM (#44260061)
There's some tipping point where it's too much. For example, when the interest on the debt >> defense spending. Agree it doesn't need to be fully balanced, debt is a useful tool.
Re:Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wi... by hackyhacky on Thursday June 12, 2025 @12:41PM (#44259782)
> There's also near zero evidence we actually need a balanced budget for a healthy economy.

The alternative is to pay an ever increasing amount of interest on our ever increasing debt.

The other alternative is to default on our debt obligations.

Neither option is good.

Re:Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wi... by whatshisface on Thursday June 12, 2025 @01:36PM (#44260419)
If you borrow at 3% to invest in an asset that yields 10%, you can increase your position forever and will be rewarded.
Re:Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wi... by hackyhacky on Thursday June 12, 2025 @01:50PM (#44260579)
Sure, but that is not what is happening. In reality, debt is increasing faster than GDP and interest represents a larger part of the budget. Do you think that's sustainable?
Re:Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wi... by whatshisface on Thursday June 12, 2025 @03:14PM (#44261935)
It'll be even less sustainable if we cut investment spending in science in favor of uncapitalized spending.
Re:Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wi... by nathan_compton on Thursday June 12, 2025 @02:09PM (#44260793)
> politically not viable

These three words are doing quite a lot of heavy lifting.

Re:Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wi... by tokai on Thursday June 12, 2025 @12:34PM (#44259690)
>increased revenue (politically not viable)

Is that really true? Seems like its just an issue of how you frame it.

Re:Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wi... by alistairSH on Thursday June 12, 2025 @12:44PM (#44259823)
The party that controls all three branches of the federal government is pushing a budget that cuts taxes and increase the deficit. There has been zero talk from them about balancing the budget. And there likely won't be, because if they do, they won't be able to use it as a cudgel to beat the Democrats when party control eventually swings the other way.
Re:Trump's NASA cuts would destroy decades of science and wi... by somenameforme on Thursday June 12, 2025 @02:03PM (#44260701)
This [1] is a graph of government receipts (basically all income for the government) over time. It has not only increased exponentially, but basically never decreased except during major economic crises. Yet somehow in that graph, we ended up more than $36 trillion dollars in debt.

It makes it clear that the fundamental issue is not government revenue, but government spending. Every single time you give the government $1 they find a reason to spend $1.05. Why would you expect this to change if you give them $1.05, instead of them now just finding a reason to spend $1.10?

I think that democracies are probably just fundamentally incapable of caring about long-term problems like debt when acting irresponsibly has substantial short-term benefits. It's almost like some spin on a tragedy of the commons.

[1] - https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FGRECPT