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Re:Good Writing by thaumasiotes on Sunday May 25, 2025 @07:32PM (#44092312)
Expanding a little further...

> What is necessarily the case is that, if writing that sounds bad is less likely to be right, writing that is right is less likely to sound bad.

That's true. You're 100% right about this.

But if you're able to prove it, you should be well aware that exactly the same proof will quickly show that writing that doesn't sound bad is more likely to be right.

> Which, as above, is not logically equivalent to "writing that doesn't sound bad is more likely to be right".

And that, obviously, is false. They are the same statement; either is sufficient to prove the other. I don't know what happened in your comment.

Re:Good Writing by pdonis on Monday May 26, 2025 @01:29AM (#44094243)
> if you're able to prove it

It's a logical tautology, at least if we make the implications definite (i.e., "sounds bad" necessarily implies "not right", and therefore "right" necessarily implies "does not sound bad"). In other words, "A implies B" is logically equivalent to "Not B implies Not A". There's no need to give any further proof.

> you should be well aware that exactly the same proof will quickly show that writing that doesn't sound bad is more likely to be right.

No, it won't. You really need to learn some basic logic.

> They are the same statement

No, they're not. Again, please learn some basic logic. "A implies B" is not logically equivalent to "B implies A". You are claiming that it is. Any basic textbook on logic will tell you that you are wrong.

Re:Good Writing by thaumasiotes on Monday May 26, 2025 @01:56AM (#44094385)
If you want to go around calling things basic math, maybe you should actually do the math. You're not going to impress anyone by just parroting the idea that you're an idiot.

I can do it for you:

            +----------+--------+
            | eloquent | clumsy |
    +-------+----------+--------+
    |  true |    A     |   B    |
    +-------+----------+--------+
    | false |    C     |   D    |
    +-------+----------+--------+
Imagine there are A papers that are eloquent and true, B papers that are badly worded and true, C papers that are eloquent and false, and D papers that are badly worded and false. We'll also assume none of these values are 0.

For convenience, I'll use the lowercase letters to refer to probabilities rather than counts: a = A / (A + B + C + D), b = B / (A + B + C + D), etc.

We are given the postulate "papers that sound bad [in our terminology, "clumsy"] are less likely to be true". There are two possible interpretations of this:

1. Clumsy papers are less likely to be true than the average of all papers.

2. Clumsy papers are less likely to be true than eloquent papers.

Fortunately for us, each of these implies the other, so I'll use interpretation (1), again for convenience.

We can now define our postulate precisely:

    b / (b + d) < (a + b) / (a + b + c + d)
Observe here that the four values a, b, c, and d are all positive and their sum is 1.

We can use basic algebra to rearrange the postulate:

     b / (b + d) < (a + b)    [because a + b + c + d = 1]
     b < (a + b)(b + d)       [because (b + d) is positive]
     b < (ab + ad + b^2 + bd) [algebra]
     b < b(a + b + d) + ad    [algebra]
     b < b(1 - c) + ad        [because a + b + c + d = 1]
     b < b - bc + ad          [algebra]
     0 < 0 - bc + ad          [algebra]
    bc < ad                   [algebra]
Let's examine whether eloquent papers are more likely to be true. As an algebraic statement, this is:

    a / (a + c) > (a + b) / (a + b + c + d)
Same process:

     a / (a + c) > (a + b)
     a > (a + b)(a + c)
     a > a^2 + ac + ab + bc
     a > a(a + c + b) + bc
     a > a(1 - d) + bc
     a > a - ad + bc
     0 > 0 - ad + bc
    ad > bc
We have now proven that eloquent papers are more likely to be true if and only if ad > bc. We've also proven that, if clumsy papers are less likely to be true, bc < ad. I'm really, really hoping you can fill in the rest of the proof.

Why did you insist - repeatedly - that a very basic and obvious fact was false? What were you thinking?