Re:At Amazon, Some Coders Say Their Jobs Have Begun to Resem...
by closewith on Sunday May 25, 2025 @02:25PM
(#44089780)
The working class is globally the class of people who must sell their labour. That includes - to a rounding error - all software developers and that is completely uncontroversial.
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Re:At Amazon, Some Coders Say Their Jobs Have Begun to Resem...
by SoftTalker on Sunday May 25, 2025 @03:43PM
(#44090433)
This also includes doctors, lawyers, academics, managers and executives, none of whom are traditionally thought of as "working class"
Re:At Amazon, Some Coders Say Their Jobs Have Begun to Resem...
by dragonwriter on Sunday May 25, 2025 @03:51PM
(#44090499)
That group is, in fact, traditionally considered largely working class (proletarian, more specifically the proletarian intelligentsia, though some in that group might be middle class, again, in the traditional class analysis, petit bourgeois sense.)
American popular usage defers from traditional economic role-based class analysis to be instead do income-based “class” terminology which instead of defining the middle class as the petit bourgeois who apply their own labor to their own capital in production (or otherwise have a relation to the economy which depends on both applying labor and ownership of the non-financial means of production) defines middle class as the segment around the median income, almost entirely within the traditional working class.
This is a product of a deliberate effort to redefine terminology to impair working class solidarity, not some kind of accident.
Re:At Amazon, Some Coders Say Their Jobs Have Begun to Resem...
by jazzyjackson on Monday May 26, 2025 @12:22AM
(#44093947)
Whose tradition? Not the American working class. Despite the strong labor unions extent I think you'd be hard pressed to find marxists among them. We talk of middle and upper class precisely because we don't ascribe to the "traditional" framing of bourgeoisie v. proletariat, because running a business is actually work too, even if you own the capital. If you sit around and spend money all day we just call you an aristocrat.
Re:At Amazon, Some Coders Say Their Jobs Have Begun to Resem...
by const_cast on Sunday May 25, 2025 @05:22PM
(#44091257)
It doesn't, because a lot of those people do not sell their labor. Doctors sell a practice, or can anyway. As time goes on fewer and fewer do - they're being pushed out of the capitalist class to the working class. Most now work a salary for a large employer, like you or me.
Re:At Amazon, Some Coders Say Their Jobs Have Begun to Resem...
by closewith on Sunday May 25, 2025 @05:25PM
(#44091283)
All professions are traditionally working class.
Re:At Amazon, Some Coders Say Their Jobs Have Begun to Resem...
by SoftTalker on Sunday May 25, 2025 @06:25PM
(#44091785)
I guess it depends on whose tradition is under discussion. In the contemporary American usage, "working class" means the trades, or factory and service work. Few people would call a physician or lawyer "working class" even though they are paid for their time (and knowledge).
Re:At Amazon, Some Coders Say Their Jobs Have Begun to Resem...
by closewith on Sunday May 25, 2025 @09:33PM
(#44093070)
I wonder about your contemporaries. I imagine that most of them have a completely different definition to you, because you and doctors and lawyers are - to a rounding error - working class and everyone but you is aware of it.
Re:At Amazon, Some Coders Say Their Jobs Have Begun to Resem...
by Noumenon72 on Sunday May 25, 2025 @11:01PM
(#44093561)
As someone who used to be in the actual working class (plastic factory), it's not the same at all. Professional-Managerial Class (PMC) covers the autonomy and good treatment the working class can't have. Plus just talk to them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional%E2%80%93manageria...